I purchased an ESU Powerpack to supplement my micro, too big unfortunately for the installation loco. The Powerpack has 3 wires, ground (black), a red (+) and a white (charge) I have a TSU "Keep Alive" that will fit, but since only two wires are involved with the TSU, which pads to solder to? The pads that the black (Ground) and white (Charge)?
ESU wiring diagram for the Power Pack
Edit-Disregard, found the wiring diagram for a two wire capacitor, its ground and U+
For anone else searching for the answer, diagram below
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam:
I'm just curious as to which TSU (did you mean TCS?) Keep Alive is smaller than the Loksound Power Pack? Do you happen to have a model #.
Also, how well does the TSU/TCS Keep Alive work? I have a bit of experience with the Loksound Power Packs. I have used them in a couple of Grandt Line critters and they have worked great. However, I have read comments where the duration of the Power Pack's reserve energy was very short. Any thoughts?
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
The 3 wire types like the Power Pack oor the Lenz oone do have soome advantages - that third wire is a control wire so the big capacitance can be switched off when programming, whereas with a 2 wire type like the TCS Keep Alive it's always on and you may need to add connectors to disconnect it to program.
TCS has 4 different models. 2 appear to have the same value capciatooors (the KA-2 and KA-4, since they have the same time rating) just arranged differently. The ESU Power Pack is proobably in between sizes - it probably can run longer than the smallest TCS, but is slightly larger, but the biggest TCS one should almost certainly run longer than the ESU. How long any of them will last depends heavily ooon the current draw of the motor, and secondarily on how loud you have the sound turned up, the motor being the main factor by an order of magnitude or more. You've got some pretty efficient mootoors in a lot of those critters, if you could cram in an even bigger keep alive device you could probably drive the loco across the flooor not even on any tracks. A recent Cody's Office had the new Walthers Plymouth switcher which has a Soundtraxx motor only decoder plus a Current Keeper and they put down like 4 feet of blue tape on a stretch oofo track and it got all the way across. I can't imagine you'd need more than that, or really, even that much - even a #14 switch frog isn't that long.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
In Loksound decoders, CV113 controls the duration of the stay alive module. The range is 0 to 255 (max). The factory default used to be 50, so you might want to check the current value. Set it to 255 for maximum effect.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
hon30critter Geared Steam: I'm just curious as to which TSU Keep Alive is smaller than the Loksound Power Pack? Do you happen to have a model #. Also, how well does the TSU Keep Alive work? I have a bit of experience with the Loksound Power Packs. I have used them in a couple of Grandt Line critters and they have worked great. However, I have read comments where the duration of the Power Pack's reserve energy was very short. Any thoughts? Dave
I'm just curious as to which TSU Keep Alive is smaller than the Loksound Power Pack? Do you happen to have a model #.
Also, how well does the TSU Keep Alive work? I have a bit of experience with the Loksound Power Packs. I have used them in a couple of Grandt Line critters and they have worked great. However, I have read comments where the duration of the Power Pack's reserve energy was very short. Any thoughts?
I was going to mount a "keep alive" on top of the can motor, between it and the cab roof. Now that I'm back to staring at the space provided, the KA3 would fit that way, but not lengthwise, looks to be a touch too long.
Sooo, I'm either going to be forced to remove the large chunk of metal from the boiler of this brass shay, and stuff it in there, (hate to loose that weight) or keep working on the pickup issues with the trucks. I already made wipers for the +, so I know thats fine, it must be the ground thru the frame that needs attention.
If the power transfer is through the truck bolsters like Athearn Blue Box diesels, adding wires and/or wheel wipers on the - side should fix all your problems.
The new KA4 has the same power as the KA3 but is a small square package. 13mm x 13mm x 12mm compared to the ESU Power Pack at 22mm x 10mm x 14mm There's an install series of picture showing the KA4 used in a Bowser DS4-4-1000, and having a few of these I know first hand there's not much space in there, and if the KA4 fits I may try one myself (my sound one has a Loksound decoder, the TCS pictures of course show a WOW sound install plus they one they show is a newer one that has a 21 pin factory board).
rrinker If the power transfer is through the truck bolsters like Athearn Blue Box diesels, adding wires and/or wheel wipers on the - side should fix all your problems.
Thanks Randy, that was my next move, hopefully I can make some headway with improving pickup instead of losing that weight, or part of it.
I did look at the KA4 and that Bowser install, I'll need to break out my calipers, I'm curious if I could make that fit, at that size it might.
You can break the TCS stay alive modules down if space is at a premium. You don't need to mount all five caps in one spot. Mount three "here" and two "there" and rejoin the circuit board with jumper wires.
Mark R. You can break the TCS stay alive modules down if space is at a premium. You don't need to mount all five caps in one spot. Mount three "here" and two "there" and rejoin the circuit board with jumper wires. Mark.
Now why didnt I think of that! They are nothing but caps soldered together!
Thank you for the suggestion.
I swear I have it right, but I have a micro for one of my switches and I'm using the 2 wire NCE capacitors. I can't get the loco to act right nor does it seem like the no halt unit is working?
Can one of you guys confirm or send a more clear picture as to where the two wire set up would get soldered on the mini board?
Mike
Mike:
I assume you meant 'switchers' instead of 'switches'?
Yes I'm sorry was trying to type from my phone and that never works. The micro is in my MP15 Switcher.
I just can't get the no halt unit to work like it has on all my other locos. The only difference is my other decoders are the full size Select units. I got the no halt in these units just fine but can't seem to find the correct spots to solder them on the mini decoders.
It looks as though it should be on the back like the pictures show, but I'm just not convinced. The loco acts all crazy and when I pull it off the track to test for the 3-4 run after power loss, it's not there. I'm stumped.
I hope to go after adding a keep alive to my micro tomorrow, I will take pics of what I did and let you know the result.
I agree, the schematic looks very little like the actual decoder, I was very hesitant, but I figured, since it is ther ONLY soldering pad on that side of the decoder, I didn't have much choice.
I don't have an issue soldering, I would just wish the schematic for doing it would be more clear. Better yet (ESU), just provide a plug like everyone else.
Geared SteamBetter yet (ESU), just provide a plug like everyone else.
I absolutely agree!!!
Sorry Mike
I failed in getting the power pack or a TSU KA 3 to work with the Micro. The wiring diagram looks nothing like the decoder I have, and I decided to throw in the towel as experimenting with electronics always turns out badly. For now my eyes hurt from staring a soldering pads.
I received these pics from ESU, thanks tech support!
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/2016/10/soldering-esu-powerpack-to-esu-loksound.html
Finally have the Lokskound installed with a TCS KA3 cap. I added LED lights, firebox filcker and handmade some new wipers for better pick up, the originals had been bent and tweaked so much they had become pretzels. Still need to add couplers, an engineer, remove the lettering and weather. I used a Soundtraxx large sugar cube speaker, this all fit snugly into the tender.
I love the whistle!
Video looked great on my Iphone, not so much on Youtube.(edit-reloaded w/o adding the Youtube enhancements)
Mark R. In Loksound decoders, CV113 controls the duration of the stay alive module. The range is 0 to 255 (max). The factory default used to be 50, so you might want to check the current value. Set it to 255 for maximum effect. Mark.
Mark / Randy,
Would you clarify on a couple of related questions on the LokSounds? I have some Selects with 2-wire capacitor add-ons. One with a simple 1000 microfarad capacitor plus resistor & diode as shown in a diagram. And one with a TCS KA1 and one with a KA2.
a) Does the adjustable CV113 aspect apply only to the 3-wire Powerpacks or also for the 2-wire setups shown in the other diagrams? And does it apply to just the V4 (it is shown in that manual) or also the Select decoders (not listed in that manual)? (Perhaps it will show up as a slider on my LokProgrammer display?).
b) CV113 description in the V4 manual lists it as "Power Fail Bypass: The time that the decoder bridges via the Powerpack after an interruption of voltage. Unit: a multiple of 0.016384 sec." IF this applies to the 2-wire setups and/or for the Selects, does changing the time via CV113 affect the ability to use on the programming track without disconnecting / switching off the capacitor? I find that while I cannot use program track for the 2-wire simple 1000 microfarad setup in one loco but that I can with at least one of the 2-wire Keep Alives (using NCE Powerhouse Pro w/PTB-100 program track booster or with the LokProgrammer.
Thanks for any clarification.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
CV113 applies to both the Select and V4.0 decoders.
Changing the value of CV113 does not affect the programming ability. I've installed about two dozen of the TCS 2-wire units to Loksound decoders, and have only had trouble not being able to program three of them using the Lokprogrammer.
If you can completely discharge the capacitor first, you stand the best chance of being able to program the decoder without disconnecting the capacitor. Once the capacitor develops a charge, the programmer "sees" the external power source and considers it a fault. There isn't as much current on a programming track as there is on the main, so you have a window of working time before the capacitor can build enough charge to throw off the programmer.
I've since gotten in the habit of installing a micro slide switch on the bottom of the engine to cut the capacitor out of the circuit for programming just in case. Simple addition to do since you already have the engine apart.
Hi Mark:
Where did you get the tiny slide switch that you did such a nice job of installing?
hon30critter Hi Mark: Where did you get the tiny slide switch that you did such a nice job of installing? Dave
Got them off ebay (where else !) quite some time ago. Checked for the same seller again last year and they no longer exist. These are very similar ....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20pcs-Slide-Type-Switch-1-Bit-2-54mm-1-Position-DIP-Red-Pitch-New-/201705774305?hash=item2ef699dce1:g:VLAAAOxyF0pTf1jd
Do a search for DIP switches - lots of them.
Mark:
AHA!
Mark R.Do a search for DIP switches
"DIP" switches! I was searching for "slide switches". That's obviously why I couldn't find the really small switches. I wanted to do exactly the same thing with the keep alives.
Thanks a bunch!
DIP -- Dual Inline Package in electronics speak.
CG
Yeah, can;t say I've ever seen a single DIP switch. 2 in a unit is the smallest. And you can get 4 or 8. If the loco has a lift off hatch or something you can also use a micro 2 pin connector and just unplug the keep alive, but if getting at it would require shell removal, the slide switch idea is much better.
For comparitive data on the various add-on capacitor assemblies, the following list was just updated in July. I find it interesting to see the power capacity, dimensions, etc. (prices not listed).
https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/decoders/keep-alive-compatibility
I just saw a note on a yahoo forum yesterday the the ESU Mini has been updated and can now be re-arranged / unfolded / separated. For me the key contenders, inluding the price part, are the TCS and Soundtraxx, so I'm keeping a KA1, KA2, and a Current Keeper on hand for options. I need to investigate the other KAs.
At this time I have had no issues programming the Loksound with the TCS KA3 capacitor. I'm using JMRI and Sprog III instead of the Loksound Programmer.
rrinker Yeah, can;t say I've ever seen a single DIP switch. 2 in a unit is the smallest. And you can get 4 or 8. If the loco has a lift off hatch or something you can also use a micro 2 pin connector and just unplug the keep alive, but if getting at it would require shell removal, the slide switch idea is much better. --Randy
Did you check the ebay link I posted ? There's all kinds of ads for single DIP switches. As a matter of fact, this thread made me realize I was getting low on them myself, so I ordered 60 more for under $5.00 with free shipping from one of the ads.
I stand corrected. rarely ever see just one by itself, usually they are used to set addresses or some sort of mask so they are ganged by 2, 4, or 8.
Yes, you can get anything from China these days. Watch that one place - $1.48 for 20 but $5.75 for 50. Who do they think they are fooling?
rrinker I stand corrected. rarely ever see just one by itself, usually they are used to set addresses or some sort of mask so they are ganged by 2, 4, or 8. Yes, you can get anything from China these days. Watch that one place - $1.48 for 20 but $5.75 for 50. Who do they think they are fooling? --Randy
LOL - That's probably the same one I bought from, but instead, I ordered 3 lots of 20 - so, 60 of them for $4.44.