SepticScepticAppreciate the clarification folks. After much deliberating, I think I will choose the NCE Starter set 5240025, but I'm easily swayed :-) Though there doesn't seem to be provision for an equivalent of Digitrax's Loconet? Dang conumdrums..
Our club uses the 5 amp PowerPro system. However, just about every member has one of the PowerCabs (5240025) for use at home. And this is because it does just about anything they need it to do.
Much has been said/written about the Loconet. For what you are initially planning to do, I think it will be quite some time before you would even find it necessary to start thinking about what Loconet can do for you. And when that time comes, you can easily add a similar capability if you need it.
What you should be looking at right now is how comfortable the controllers feel, and how easy you think they are to figure out.
mfm37You have to reenter the address of the loco on a Zephyr to regain control...
The Zephyr Xtra does have a recall button so that you don't have to re-enter the address.
I have a Zephyr at home. I was not crazy about the recall function, so I bought a separate handheld throttle that hooks up to the Zephyr (UT4D). I got the wireless one, but this was not necessary. Anyway, I like it for its small size and simplicity. I can run a second loco through the main throttle on the main box. And the cost is quite reasonable...
Simon
The Zephyr will also allow you to attach up to two DC power packs to Jump Ports which would let you control the speed totally separately from the Zephyr. You set the address in the Zephyr.
This could be at no additional cost if you already have a power pack sitting around as would be likely if you are converting from DC to DCC. Most power packs will work for this purpose.
Strength in diversity!
rrinkerThere is no real concept of an in use address 'stack' with Digitrax, the ability is provided as a convenience feature which is also why it can be changed between 4, 8, and 16 at will. 16 addresses can be in a DT40x recall stack even with a system like the original Zephyr which only supports 12 running locos at a time. The closest thing to a 'stack' in Digitrax are the slots, which are a fixed number depending on the command station - 12 in the old Zephyr, 22 in the Zephyr Xtra, 120 in the DCS100, and 400 in the new DCS240 (never mind that the NMRA DCC protocol will never allow smooth control of 400 locos at the same time, even if you DID have a layout large enough).
Heck with having a layout big enough, Randy, my biggest problem is having a memory good enough to remember what's in the stack...for me, the default on the NCE (1 active, 1 in stack) is usually all I can handle reliably.
Rather than ooohing and ahhing over the total stack number available for recall, one would be wise to give consideration to your personal ability to accurately remember what's in the stack. Any number bigger than that won't have much impact.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
What I say about recall stacks, at least the way Digitrax uses them (just a list of recent addresses, absolutely nothing more, it's NOT necessarily the engines you have moving at any given time) - the longest address has 4 digits. To select a loco, you press the loco button, enter up to 4 digits, and press enter. That's 6 keypresses. So if you are trying to recall more than the 4th address in the stack, it's MORE keypresses than just keying in the loco number. You still have the overhead of the Loco key and the Enter at the end, so if you use the recall and want the 7th loco in - there's the 2 button overhead plus 7 more to scroll through the stack. 3 more than just keying the loco in to begin with.
This is not how the 'stack' is used on other systems, and it's one of my peeves on DCC comparison charts where a larger stack is used as a pro for some systems over others. There is no real concept of an in use address 'stack' with Digitrax, the ability is provided as a convenience feature which is also why it can be changed between 4, 8, and 16 at will. 16 addresses can be in a DT40x recall stack even with a system like the original Zephyr which only supports 12 running locos at a time. The closest thing to a 'stack' in Digitrax are the slots, which are a fixed number depending on the command station - 12 in the old Zephyr, 22 in the Zephyr Xtra, 120 in the DCS100, and 400 in the new DCS240 (never mind that the NMRA DCC protocol will never allow smooth control of 400 locos at the same time, even if you DID have a layout large enough).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Appreciate the clarification folks.
After much deliberating, I think I will choose the NCE Starter set 5240025, but I'm easily swayed :-)
Though there doesn't seem to be provision for an equivalent of Digitrax's Loconet?
Dang conumdrums..
Dieter
You have to reenter the address of the loco on a Zephyr to regain control. As Randy explained, the throttle on Zephyr is a Potentiometer so it will need to be set to approximately the same speed (position) as when it was dismissed to continue running with no slow down or speed up. Direction switch needs to be the same as well. Don't fret, if the speed is off or direction reversed, the engine will slow to a stop instead of an abrupt stop.
If using a DT402 throttle with a Zephyr, the engine will just keep going at the same speed and direction it was going when recalled. DT402 has a default recall stack of 4 engines. That can be expanded to 8 or 16 if desired. That gets really hairy.
Martin Myers
SepticSceptic...A couple of comments have made mention of "the fact that when I change to another loco, the existing one keeps going on the same speed. Then when I switch back, the loco has reset and you have to stop it in order to adjust the speed"...
It sounds like they are just re-entering the loco addresses instead of using the recall button - https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/208593576-loco-stops-when-using-select-loco
For what it's worth, both NCE and CVP make starter DCC units that have two throttles built into one unit. If you have a layout where you want to run two engines/trains at the same time, but don't want or need to add walkaround throttles, that might be the best alternative. (In both cases, you can add a plug-in or radio walkaround throttle of course.)
Water Level Route rrinker At least in the Digitrax case, the knobs can be made 'ballastic' in that if you turn them slowly, it goes one step per click, but if you spin the knob quickly, it jumps in greater increments NCE, at least the PowerPro, is the same way and that rate is adjustable.
rrinker At least in the Digitrax case, the knobs can be made 'ballastic' in that if you turn them slowly, it goes one step per click, but if you spin the knob quickly, it jumps in greater increments
NCE, at least the PowerPro, is the same way and that rate is adjustable.
Same with the thumbwheel on the Power Cab.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
rrinkerAt least in the Digitrax case, the knobs can be made 'ballastic' in that if you turn them slowly, it goes one step per click, but if you spin the knob quickly, it jumps in greater increments
Mike
mlehmanThe PowerCab Recall button allows you to store one loco besides the one you're running directly. It continues at whatever speed it was set for when last accessed while you switch to control another loco, and can then be reacquired at that same speed when you push the recall button again. The more complex NCE systems allow more than one loco in the Recall stack, if you're using a controller with Recall to operate with and have the extra Recalls enabled in the system. The default is one directly operating loco and one running in Recall.
The more complex NCE systems allow more than one loco in the Recall stack, if you're using a controller with Recall to operate with and have the extra Recalls enabled in the system. The default is one directly operating loco and one running in Recall.
Actually, the newest OS for the Power Cab (V1.65) will allow you to recall from 2-6 locomotives in the recall stack. I keep mine at 2-3 just so I don't have cycle through so many addresses before I get to the one I want.
I have no idea what the NCE user on Amazon was doing. The Power Cab will allow you to set the speed for Loco #1 to, say "040" and set the speed for Loco #2 to, say "050". If you toggle back and forth between both locomotives using the recall button, their respective speeds will remain the same until you direct them otherwise.
The second loco doesn't "reset" on either system. No idea what that person might have been talking about.
Not sure how the PowerCab works, but the speeds shouldn't change because it used an encoder wheel speed control. The posiion of the wheel has no absolutes, so the loco just keeps going at whatever the last speed was until you turn the wheel.
The Zephyr has a potentiometer knob, which like a DC power pack has absolutes. There's a stop at 0 speed, and a stop at full throttle. Halfway between the two is half speed and so forth. The loco's speed HAS to adjust to the position of the knob when switching between locos, but the Zephyr has a gradual change so the loco speeds don't jump around wildly when switching between them.
Personally I hate potentometer throttles, it's like an old DC power pack when you have 300 degrees or so of rotation between stop and warp speed. That's why the first thing I bought after my Zephyr was a DT400 throttle which has 2 encoder knobs, so I can control 2 trains at the same time and not just have one runnign free, plus I can switch between those two and any others without the speeds changing. Other people can;t stand the idea that the encoder just keeps spinning - after you've stopped the loco, you can keep spinning it and nothing happens, or after you've reached full speed. In most cases, it takes more than 1 full turn to go from stop to full speed, which gives finer speed control. At least in the Digitrax case, the knobs can be made 'ballastic' in that if you turn them slowly, it goes one step per click, but if you spin the knob quickly, it jumps in greater increments - such as slowly increasing to full throttle but then somethign happens and you need to stop fast - a quick spin of the knob counterclockwise can take you from full to stop instantly, even though it took 2 turns to go from stop to full.
Dieter,
Someone is not reading the manual and/or operating the NCE right, assuming we're talking about the PowerCab (although is pretty much the same with other NCE systems, depending on the controller you have.)
The PowerCab Recall button allows you to store one loco besides the one you're running directly. It continues at whatever speed it was set for when last accessed while you switch to control another loco, and can then be reacquired at that same speed when you push the recall button again.
One of our Digitrax-knowledgable members can help you with that.
Just a quick question as regarding controlling 2 locos with the same starter set. A couple of comments have made mention of "the fact that when I change to another loco, the existing one keeps going on the same speed. Then when I switch back, the loco has reset and you have to stop it in order to adjust the speed"
Is this the case for both the NCE and Digitrax starter sets ? The quote above comes from an Amazon NCE review, and I did read a similar comment about the Digitrax.
Cheers