Update. Purchased the micro decoder and a speaker. The fuel was only big enough for one round speaker, and had a baggle installed. I bought the largest speaker that would fit down there.
(My Model Railroad, My Rules)
These are the opinions of an under 35 , from the east end of, and modeling, the same section of the Wheeling and Lake Erie railway. As well as a freelanced road (Austinville and Dynamite City railroad).
Hi Henry:
No, you don't need an additional enclosure. The one that is included will work fine.
I was assuming that Jimmy's sugar cubes didn't come with enclosures. If he mounted them in the fuel tank the tank itself won't work as an enclosure for them. It would probably work fine for a regular 'cone' style speaker if the speaker covered all the holes, but the dynamics of the sugar cube speakers are much different from a conventional speaker. Please don't ask me to explain the mechanics at work here. Your speaker/enclosure combination can be mounted wherever you want.
By the way, here is a clickable version of your link:
https://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999007669&cat=436&page=1
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Dave are you saying I need an additional enclosure to the one included with this speaker?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
thank you, this actually looks fairly simple enough for a first soldering project. I think I'll purchase that micro decoder, and two sugarcube speakers this week, and get started with the project. Thanks all for the help. ill try to post a link to a video of it after I install it.
Jimmy:
Just a couple of points about sugar cube speakers that you might not be aware of:
Sugar cubes must have an enclosure that is attached to the speaker so that the speaker diaphram (the flat part that moves) is sealed in tight. Any air leaks and they will sound like crap. No enclosure and they will sound even worse, as in being inaudible. As I already mentioned, the enclosures don't have to be very big. I use .040" styrene and CA to build my own enclosures. There are commercially produced enclosures available too.
If you mount the sugar cube(s) in the fuel tank I would strongly suggest that you install an enclosure on each speaker, and just use the fuel tank to hide them. You should glue them with the enclosure facing the bottom of the fuel tank. However, that's not necessarily the best location. Read on:
What is really neat about sugar cube speakers is that they will work without having to have holes in the locomotive to let the sound out. If you glue them firmly to the inside of the shell roof with the diaphram/enclosure next to the roof the sound is transmitted right through the shell and the quality is just as good.
I almost always mount them in pairs, and if there is room, in quads, so you could mount speakers in the fuel tank as well as the roof to give you a fuller sound.
If you haven't already, make sure you read all of Streamlined Backshop's notes, especially with regard to speaker impedance if you are using multiple speakers (see third link). I'll post the links again:
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/sugarcubespeakers.html
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/sugarcubespeakernotes.html
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/wiringmultispeakers.html
Have fun!
The space isn't an issue-the fuel tank underneath is actually an enclosed space, with holes installed already. Maybe I will try the sugar cube speakers.
Hi Jimmy:
The Loksound Select Micro will work fine provided that your locomotive doesn't draw more power than the decoder can handle, which is highly unlikely given that it is a new Kato. The Micro has a .75 amp limit, so realistically your locomotive shouldn't draw more than about .6 amps at stall. You do not want to run the decoder close to its limit all the time. If the amp draw is fine then the decoder is perfect.
FYI, the Select decoders have 6 functions so you can operate your ditch lights.
As for the speaker, you want to install as big a speaker and enclosure as will fit. Sometimes that may require the removal of parts of the weights using a hack saw, or ideally, having the weight milled. If you are having difficulty finding enough space for the speaker, that's where you should explore the 'sugar cube' speakers. Ed posted a link to Streamlined Backshop's excellent information pages. They are a 'must read'.
Sugar Cubes will fit in small spaces. You can get away with quite small enclosures too and they will still sound great. Lots of times there is room for two, or even four of the sugar cube speakers. They don't all have to be placed together. I use sugar cube speakers exclusively even where there is space for larger speakers.
There are two sugar cube speakers in this wee beast:
It also has a Loksound Select Micro in it.
Regards,
Would something like this be what I requre?
https://tonystrains.com/product/esu-73800-loksound-select-micro-sound-decoder-2/
with a speaker like...
https://tonystrains.com/product/medium-oval-product/
Jimmy and others:
Loksound has just announced a $10.00 price increase for the Select decoders effective Sept 5. You may want to check with your supplier to see what their pricing will be after that.
The V4.0 prices are not changing.
Jimmy, I will also suggest saving a few dollars by going with the Loksound Select decoder. It is a fantastic decoder and it does come with the 8 pin plug attached. The current price difference between the Select and the V4.0 at Tony's is $32 - $40. From reading the website, it would appear that the Selects are no longer supplied with a speaker but the V4.0s are.
https://tonystrains.com/shop/page/1/?adv_search=wc&post_type=product&relation=AND&tax%5B0%5D=product_cat&op%5B0%5D=IN&val%5B0%5D=esu_loksound&s=decoder&min_price=0&max_price=900
The additional features available on the V4.0 are not used by most modellers. However, if you plan on creating your own sound files down the road then the V4.0 is the one you want.
The Select 6Aux has the 8-pin plug on it, but I don't know if it is too thick to mount atop your existing board or elsewhere. I'd call Tonys Trains (or another) and ask if the Select Direct can be used to replace the existing board on your version. Or ask Kato, as they have a current version with a LokSound (I'd suspect the Select Direct).
If the existing board is replaced, note you will need to re-do the lighting as the existing LEDs are likely on the existing board. You can see how a TCS install would go below, on one Kato version. The first link shows a TCS motor only decoder addition, included to show the original board. The second link shows replacement with a WowSound board, including addressing the lighting changes when the original board with LEDs is removed.
I'd guess(!) a LokSound Direct would be what Kato installs (instead of an add-on board to the DC only board). I recall that the Direct board has resistors for LEDs built in, whereas the 6 Aux requires adding resistors. Download and read the Select manual from the ESU USA site. Note the WowSound install shows shortening the light pipes and gluing on SMD LEDs, though 3mm LEDs could probably fit also. If you are going to be doing many conversions, it's a good idea to get on hand a supply of various type LEDs, resistors, wire, shrink wrap, etc.
Let us know the details you find out.
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Kato/EMD%20SD40-2/EMD%20SD40-2.html
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Kato/SD40%20Sound/Kato%20SD40_WOW121-Diesel%20and%20AK-MB1.html
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I was looking at the V4, due to the fact of the eight pin plug on it, and the loco I'm planning to install it on has a location for it to just plug in- Kato sd40-2 most recent run. It doesn't list the Kato board as being able to be replaced on the select, so that's what had me wondering.
I'll second Ed's suggestion to look at the Select versions. The V4 will cost about $110 plus shipping, whereas the Select Direct (board replacment version) will cost about $88, the "6 Aux" Select about $80. The Selects can be reloaded in future (wuth the LokProgrammer) with any of the standard sound files, they just don't allow the custom files that folks may make themselves. I believe the Direct includes a Micro (3/4 amp motor rating) on it, where the 6 Aux is a 1.1 amp, though for most locos either is fine.
I use the 6 Aux usually as I like to remove the existing board(s) and the 6 Aux capsule takes less room than the Direct board, leaving a bit more room for wiring and speakers. They have a 8-pin plug plus speaker wires, but I cut off the plug and hard wire them. You might talk to Tony's Trains (or another) about whether the Direct will fit in your loco if you don't want to hard wire, and what speaker to fit where. If you want to simply plug the 8-pin into the existing board (if it has the spot for it) that might be a problem of room for both the existing board and a plug-in sound decoder.
The 6 Aux's lately have not come with speakers, I presume because that drove the cost slighty and the one included might not be what's needed anyway. The website suggests the Selects are optimized for 4 ohms but the manual notes rating at 4-8 ohms, and a number of folks have wired multiple speakers 16 ohms with success. The reality is we usually turn the sound volume down so any of the 4, 8 or 16 ohm arrangements can work.
I've typically used the 8 ohm HiBass speakers 1.1" in HO cab units, and others (long narrow hoods) use sugarcubes (usually 2-4) in custom made 0.040" styrene boxes.
Hi, Jimmy
You might want to look at the Loksound Select rather than the V4. Most users like the select and the sound "project" can be changed using a Lokprogrammer (optionally) or when you order the Select you choose the sound set you want the dealer to install for you. Of course you can change horns, bells and sound levels on the select using any programming method you prefer with CVs.
The V4 costs a little more and the sounds can be individually customized, something that many users wouldn't ordinarily do. You can record your own sound and add it to the V4 decoder.
A few of the select direct wire decoders I bought in the past came with a basic 23mm round speaker but most of the recent Select Directs and regular selects have not. The newest Selects are designed for use with a speaker load of 8Ω.
The "Select Direct" has an additional motherboard that makes installing into Athearn style boards easier to accomplish. The Select micro is a smaller profile decoder.
Sugar cube speakers are becoming a low-cost alternative to larger speakers. I have used many of the various speakers and enclosures available from Rail Master hobbies.
http://www.railmasterhobbies.com/Speakers.htm
Streamlined Backshop has a lot of information on sugarcubes:
Good Luck, Ed
I'm taking the plunge and buying a Loksound decoder. So If I'm reading the description correctly, do I have to buy a speaker or is there one included?
Impedance 4-8 Ohms, 4 Ohms recommended. Special speaker 4 Ohms, 23 mm diameter (with sound chamber) included in delivery