Docjmp Thanks for the idea, Rich, as well as the pictures. I'm currently controlling the switches with two tortoises, one on each each, throwing them in pairs. Jim
Thanks for the idea, Rich, as well as the pictures. I'm currently controlling the switches with two tortoises, one on each each, throwing them in pairs.
Jim
Rich
Alton Junction
My Cat like dead frogs. They are *much* easier to catch than live ones.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Doc, how do you control the double crossover right now? Are you using Tortoises or some other type of electrical switch motor? Are you using manual ground throws?
If you have a multimeter, check the adjoining rail segments (next to the frog) to be sure that they are powered based upon the route selected. That way, you can be sure that the unpowered frog is the problem.
One convenient way to test rail segments for power is to use a 12 volt incandescent bulb with two wires soldered to it. This is often what I do. You touch one wire to one rail of the segment and touch the other wire to the other rail of the segment. If the bulb lights, you have power. To use this handy device, solder a wire to the metal bottom of the bulb and solder the other wire to the side of the metal portion of the bulb.
Docjmp I'll have to see if I can get under the track to check for that small bronze tab.
Hi, Doc
You don't have to remove the turnout to see the bronze tab. It is right near the end of the throwbar, or more correctly, the "head bar" in track-speak.
These photos are of the very few remaining power-routing Walthers/Shinohara code 83 turnouts I still have on my layout, and are scheduled to be replaced. The solid metal bar soldered between the points is one sure way to know you have a power-routing turnout. The all-live turnout (DCC "Friendly") uses plastic here.
Below is a closer view showing the bronze tab.
That little shiny bump has to be clean, as does the underside of the stock rail. It also helps to take a very fine piece of emery or crocus cloth, fold it in half and work it between the stock rail and back side of the points to clean off any gunk.
You can see my Tortoise actuating wire poking through the rivet.
As I mentioned above, you really need a switch machine or sprung ground throw to keep tension on the point to help electrical continuity. SOME modelers would rip out that bronze strip because IF they used auxiliary contacts on a switch machine and it made contact before the bronze contact opened you would get a short.
IF after all this you still have dead sections of rail you will either have to add jumpers or use the double crossover as a paperweight...
[EDIT] If you can find the Feb. 2001 M-R, Pg. 90-91 there is an article about improving Shinohara turnouts.
Good Luck, Ed
Hi Ed,
I checked the box and it is the old style. I'll have to see if I can get under the track to check for that small bronze tab. If there is a bad connection at the jumper, can I correct it with frog juicers?
OK, richhotrain,
This is an easy fix now that I can see what you mean. I'm an orthodontist and have lots of those parts lying around. Thanks for the help!
I just knew this was going to happen when I titled my post "Dead Frogs". LOL!!
"No frogs were harmed in the making of this thread"
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
richg1998 This is where a meter on AC scale would help for trouble shooting. My Harbor Freight meters serve very well for looking for defective spots. I connect the meter first to the output of the DCC booster for a reference. Has worked for some years. Rich
This is where a meter on AC scale would help for trouble shooting.
My Harbor Freight meters serve very well for looking for defective spots. I connect the meter first to the output of the DCC booster for a reference. Has worked for some years.
From the OP's description, it is likely that the unpowered frog is causing the stall. But, it would be worthwhile to test the adjoining rail segments to be certain that they have not lost power for some reason. It does happen on double crossovers. I speak from experience.
maxmanYes, the bigger the frog, the fewer you need. You only need enough to fill the blender.
That's absolutely disgusting!
I could never make margaritas in my blender again!
Apologies to the OP. You'd think we had all been smoking something!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
ricktrains4824How many frogs do you juice to have enough for a glass? Does it depend on the frog?
Yes, the bigger the frog, the fewer you need. You only need enough to fill the blender.
It will probably work fine if you throw all four switches at the same time. I have four code 100 and two code 83 Shinohara double cross overs, and they all work fine without any extra wiring.
How many frogs do you juice to have enough for a glass? Does it depend on the frog?
And, better question, why would you want to juice a frog anyways?
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Jim, I used Frog Juicers, but only had to use them on two of the frogs. My BS 4-4-0 went through the other two with no problems, go figure.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
A powered metal frog.
richhotrain maxman, if that frog has any metal fillings, it can still be powered. Rich
maxman, if that frog has any metal fillings, it can still be powered.
'E's not dead, 'e's pining for the fjords (even though it appears that he's croaked).
Wayne
Docjmp I have a used Shinohara #6 double crossover and am operating on DCC.
Hi, Jim
Can you see if your used crossover is from the early run of Walthers code 83 Shinohara track? If it is, it has a solid metal connection soldered between each pair of switch points.
Their later "DCC Friendly" turnouts came in a box with a label like this.
If it is the earlier type OR if it is a code 100 or code 70 it is a "power routing turnout" (x4 for the double crossover) and a solid electrical path is needed between the stock rail and the switch point. There would be a small bronze tab under the point which is supposed to aid the point in feeding the diverging rail and the frog.
You really need a switch machine to hold the points against the stock rail in order to maintain electrical continuity, or be sure the bronze strip is still there (some modelers clipped them out).
IF the turnout has a plastic tie-bar between the points it is a newer "all-live" type with insulated frogs. Here is where a hex frog juicer would help to keep the frogs live. You could also use the auxiliary electrical output of a switch machine or ground throw with contacts to power the frog too.
Some of the early runs of the Walthers/Shinohara turnouts were missing or had poor welding of the electrical jumpers underneath the turnouts that can cause dead sections of rail! I had a bunch of double-slip switches with this problem.
Hope that helps, Ed
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Frog juicers are one way to go, but you will likely need four of them, one for each frog.
How are you powering the double crossover? If you are using Tortoises, you can use their internal switches to power the frogs.
Hi Everyone,
I'm wiring my first crossover and am having some issues with dead frogs. I have a used Shinohara #6 double crossover and am operating on DCC. I have wires from a continuous bus going to the crossover at both ends. When I run my switch (short wheelbase obviously), it will stop as soon as it gets to a frog. I can coax it along with an nudge, but it stops again. Once I've moved it throught the frog and the crossover point, power is restored. I've been reading online and wonder if I need to install a hex frog juicer.