DigitalGriffinThat's where in the problem lies. It may look normal till you hit a pigment or hue that is not represented in the spectrum. Those colors will appear faded or dark.
Yeah, that's a possibility and if I had a largely Plywood Pacific, it could be of concern. But things are pretty complete (at least to the level it is right now, although constant improvements are underway). They light up what they're gonna light up and nothing seems odd to my sight. Keep in mind that I also have several older generations of these also in use and that mixing of their light may dilute.
Of course, males are notoriously prone to eyesight color deficiencies, another reason to keep the CRI in mind. My eyes have always checked good for such issues, so am guessing what I see works. Obviously, if something stood out, it might be a reason to upgrade from the cheap seats here. And that's an issue for most people. But if it's affordable and works in your sight, then it's what people use.
The spectrum approach to the CRI rendered earlier also suggests that just seeing the number may not tell the whole story either. So one way or another, it comes down to buying some, taking them home and comparing how they light up YOUR layout, because who knows what ITS CRI-reaction corresponds to? It's a pass/fail test for most people's eyes from what I can see. or maybe you should explain how to put such knowledge to work, because I don't see where that comes in beyond my suggestion to test drive them to see for yourself.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman Don, No CRI listed for these. I don't have any fancy equipment to measure it. But the Mark One Eyeball tells me it's good on these particular lights so long as you stay with "white." They do match well with my older light strips, which also didn't have a CRI listed. The "warm white" has a rather yellowish cast to it. But the white seems to render things on the layout well.
Don,
No CRI listed for these. I don't have any fancy equipment to measure it. But the Mark One Eyeball tells me it's good on these particular lights so long as you stay with "white." They do match well with my older light strips, which also didn't have a CRI listed. The "warm white" has a rather yellowish cast to it. But the white seems to render things on the layout well.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
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Steve
mlehman There is no CRI listed, but if it looks good and you need some, buy it as you'll have a hard time matching these prices.
There is no CRI listed, but if it looks good and you need some, buy it as you'll have a hard time matching these prices.
Yes, rather different in packaging from the more commonly found LED strip lighting. This stuff looks like a heavy lamp cable. This does protect the LEDs better, doesn't really snag, and is easier to pull. Also makes it easy to rearrange, although some of the early stuff was more fragile than it appeared if tugged at too much.
This new stuff is labeled "32-13" on the backside but this doesn't seem to match up to LED design labeling. On the LED side, it's labeled LF 3528. I can't remember if the older stuff was 3650 or 3528, but these are about 25% brighter than the old ones I have up. The 5050s are definitely brighter, but typically more costly, so they haven't been in my budget.
Yours seem to be different than the typical LED strips, the ones I have are just a flex strip with bare LEDs, the one set is sealed in a clear coat and claims to be waterproof but I don't intend to actually test that, even if I put them up as holiday lights outside they won't be directly exposed. The ones I cut apart (and they conveniently offer clamp on connectors to wire multiple segments together - no soldering) and used to light my workbench have only a bare minimum coating to seal the exposed traces and don't claim to be waterproof. I ran 2 rows of them under a 4 foot long shelf and it is bright on the work surface - these are the common 5050 LEDs, they are 3650's or some other size (the numbers refer to the size of the SMD LED chips) which are much brighter. I need to get a better picture, the one I took with my phone shows the brightly lit work surface but everything else looks like it was pitch black - which is not the case, the room light was also on, the LED brightness made the phone cut the exposure and shows everything else as dark. The other handy product I found are these little rubber U shaped clips to hold the LED strip in place, there is a screw hole on each side and a U shaped channel the width of the LED tape to mount them. I may redo it with another bit I found - L shaped aluminum channel with the flange on the front side to block direct view of the LEDs, although I generally can't see them from my normal sitting position unless I duck down and look.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
No actual "brick" in this case. There's a "node" built into the cord that provides the conversion. But I read 32 volts AC on the through lines each links to the next light strip with. These do appear to be the familiar groups of three LEDs and there are even marks where to cut it, but I think that's just leftover markings from the production process. The sheathing on these is clear, unlike the earlier combination of whote and clear with the Meridian/Patriot branded ones, so you can read right through it.
It's the driver circuit to run LEDs which need about 3 volts DC (though in LED bulbs there are several in series) from 120V AC from the light socket that "may" cause interference. The LED strips that come on reels typically have no active circuitry, they have groups of 3 LEDs plus a resistor and run off a 12V DC power supply. Now, a poor quality power supply can also generate RF interference, or even audible noise in an extreme case, but your typical 12V power brick used for these is pretty solid.
Peter,
I think that verbiage is a standard legal disclaimer. Seems to be "just in case," though. I've had no issue with my NCE wireless DCC.
Our JMRI WiThrottle on the home wifi router that is upstairs has some reception issues, but that router is very old by today's standard and placed all the way in one corner above the layout space. We're planning on an updated router soon. If that doesn't solve the reception issue on WiThrottle, then I may look more closely into the possibility of RFI. So far, that doesn't seem to be an issue.
Not sure about the relevancy, but this morning replaced some incandescent bulbs with LED bulbs in the dining room and for some odd reason read all the fine print on the package. The package states; "This product can cause harmful interference to radio or televison reception."
The package print also states that such interference can be corrected by increasing distance between product and receiver, reorienting or relocating receiver and or antenna, connecting product into a circuit different from the receiver.
Don't know if LED caused interference is rare, but maybe something to consider if using radio throttles?
BTW, it's going to be 104 here again today and the small amount of heat these LEDs generate is going to be most welcome, that is after I get over the sticker shock.
Regards, Peter
Rich,
I could take some pics of the overhead arrangement if that helps. In my case, there are multiple strands done at different times, so some aren't quite as neat and tidy as a new install would be. Let me know if that would be helpful.
In general, as intense as these light strips ("tape lights") are, three passes through a scene are going to be plenty; even just two may suffice. The first row should be near or even slighlty past the edge of the fascia, angled back a little if you can manage it. The next can be 6" to 1' further back towards the backdrop. Silverton and Durango both have 4 passes; the Durango ones are somewhat more intense, since that was where the early ones went and were replaced with later production ones due to the initial high failure rate of some of them. But only one pass is of these new, much brighter ones. If using them, you may find just two passes are sufficient, probably three is way bright enough.
These pics are of the "white" version. They do have warm white also, but the "white" seems to be what is often called "daylight" or even "cool white" (as in the current version of the Patriot brand light strips I use.)
In general, LED light strips tend to be very directional, so they don't tend to have much issue with shadows if mounted on the ceiling and angled properly. Because the multiple point sources are all arrayed in a line, this form of lighting tends to act like the sun's rays, which arrive in basically parallel alignment, and have a very natural look that is easy to achieve.
I added some more pics of these additions to my lighting in my Night Scene thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/213765.aspx?page=4#2888564
I think I ranted once or twice about this before.
There's advantages and disadvantages to each approach. Incandescent is initially cheaper with broader spectrum coverage. But you get uneven lighting and a high utility bill.LED lights work but their color spectrum isn't as evenly balanced. You get 1/6th the utility bill, but lighting is still uneven
Average warm white LED strips get you even lighting, but are still out of balance color wise. They also take more work to put up.High CRI (Color Rendering Index >80) LEDs give you a much better color rendering.Photography grade LED strips (CRI > 90) are uber expensive. But they produce the best color.So there are your options from least expensive and easy to most expensive and harder to install.
I would start with following the main. If you haven't put any other light strips up, put them so they are slightly in front of the main.
1x2s work for supporting the LED strips, but you could cut plywood in thin curves to follow the rail curves etc. Brain about fried. Got one more post to answer, so will check back on this later today.
Mike, those are great photos. Thanks for posting.
If I were to start from scratch, what would you advise?
Would you string the LED light strips over the mainline and trace it around the layout?
Would you create a grid, covering the length and width of the layout?
How would you approach the lighting issue?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainMike, looking forward to the pics.
How timely, they're just finishing up in the darkroom...
Here's 32.8' of dark LEDs.
Lit.
Layout Overview Before.
With additional single pass thru the scene.
mlehman Rich, It was so good I went back before the store closed and got more. For about $100, I now have about 150' of very bright LED illumination. Pics soon, before and after.
It was so good I went back before the store closed and got more. For about $100, I now have about 150' of very bright LED illumination. Pics soon, before and after.
Mike, that is quite a shopping spree. My Menards is not far away, so I will take a short drive over there. Thanks.
Speaking of deals...
Just back from the local Menards. The strip lights I buy are right inside the entrance with the rest of the LED lighting at the front of the electrical dept. Next to it, but across the aisle is a small section where they sell off-brand (and sometimes national barnd) electronic deals...usually. Figured I'd wander over and see what the deals were. I spot "LED Tape Light"...hmm, in both warm white and white, longer than what I usually buy and rated at a higher intensity, too. And it's $12!!!
Then I look a little farther to the right. Holey kazaam! they have lengths up to 45.9' ($25!). I buy one of that in white. I also buy a 32.8' ($20!) in white. Opening the box shows it equal quality by appearance, maybe even better than the $40/13' stuff I've been getting, same clips, same cord, and I think the same end-to-end connectors. My ciphering is a little suspect, but that's getting roughly 5 times the length at the same cost as before.
Plus they have the 11% rebate thing going...
These deals are usually limited quantity/limited time. But taking it home and firing it up -- OH YEAH!!!
This stuff is good. Just saying, it's a steal, get there before all the others who've been thinking about a conversion like this, model RR or not, as you won't find a better deal.
zstripe Rich, I should mention that the one's I have....definitely are not bulb's..they only look like they are. The tube is three sided, that snaps over SMD's the length of the tube..two of them. The bulb looking part is a difuser, that snaps off. If You can, take a ride to the place and take a look at all the LED fixtures they have...You don't have to pay to look....or even be in the joint. I threw the boxe's out...so I can't tell You exactly the one's I have. But they look the same as the one's in the photo in the link. Take Care! Frank
I should mention that the one's I have....definitely are not bulb's..they only look like they are. The tube is three sided, that snaps over SMD's the length of the tube..two of them. The bulb looking part is a difuser, that snaps off. If You can, take a ride to the place and take a look at all the LED fixtures they have...You don't have to pay to look....or even be in the joint. I threw the boxe's out...so I can't tell You exactly the one's I have. But they look the same as the one's in the photo in the link.
Take Care!
Frank
zstripe Rich, Reread the link.....that is a two (2) pack price, two fixtures for the price. My Son picked them up for Me in Orland Park, but He is a member...I think it is 35.00 a year, but You may be able to order direct...I don't know that for sure: http://www.costco.com/warehouse-locations/orland-park-il-647.html I guarantee, You will not need 11. Btw, a lot of great deals at Costco, all wholesale, in bulk. They are 100% better than Sam's club. Take Care! Frank
Reread the link.....that is a two (2) pack price, two fixtures for the price.
My Son picked them up for Me in Orland Park, but He is a member...I think it is 35.00 a year, but You may be able to order direct...I don't know that for sure:
http://www.costco.com/warehouse-locations/orland-park-il-647.html
I guarantee, You will not need 11.
Btw, a lot of great deals at Costco, all wholesale, in bulk. They are 100% better than Sam's club.
She looked at the link and observed that it was a 2-pack, but I said, No, that was a reference to the two bulbs included with the fixture.
Kidding aside, I appreciate your pointing that out. I will go take a look at the fixtures.
richhotrain zstripe Rich, I replaced My shop lights in My garage, because I got tired of replacing bulbs and not turning on in cold weather and then when on, not giving off enough light. I had six double shop lights and replaced them with LED shop lights...four of them and have more light than I ever had now. There are all kinds of LED shop lights that will work for what You want...look around...Home Depot, Menards etc. The one's I have: http://www.costco.com/4%E2%80%99-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain-2-pack.product.100284402.html I just stripped the cord and hardwired to My existing boxe's and left the pull chain set to on so they can be controlled by the wall switch. Take Care! Frank Thanks, Frank, that is an excellent idea. A bit pricey at $47 per fixture, especially since I have to replace 11 fixtures, but it could be the way to go. Rich
zstripe Rich, I replaced My shop lights in My garage, because I got tired of replacing bulbs and not turning on in cold weather and then when on, not giving off enough light. I had six double shop lights and replaced them with LED shop lights...four of them and have more light than I ever had now. There are all kinds of LED shop lights that will work for what You want...look around...Home Depot, Menards etc. The one's I have: http://www.costco.com/4%E2%80%99-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain-2-pack.product.100284402.html I just stripped the cord and hardwired to My existing boxe's and left the pull chain set to on so they can be controlled by the wall switch. Take Care! Frank
I replaced My shop lights in My garage, because I got tired of replacing bulbs and not turning on in cold weather and then when on, not giving off enough light. I had six double shop lights and replaced them with LED shop lights...four of them and have more light than I ever had now. There are all kinds of LED shop lights that will work for what You want...look around...Home Depot, Menards etc.
The one's I have:
http://www.costco.com/4%E2%80%99-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain-2-pack.product.100284402.html
I just stripped the cord and hardwired to My existing boxe's and left the pull chain set to on so they can be controlled by the wall switch.
Thanks, Frank, that is an excellent idea. A bit pricey at $47 per fixture, especially since I have to replace 11 fixtures, but it could be the way to go.
Yeah, I've learned to doubt reports of LED longevity. There seems to be a lot of variance at the cheap end of the market, although seems to get more consistent and better as time and practice march on. Must be the average, so someone is getting those few magical 100,000 hour ones to make up for all the 10,000 hours and long dead ones.
mlehman Rich, What you may want to do here, particularly if the budget is tight, is to get a couple of the LED shoplights and a couple of the Menards LED light strips like I use (Patriot Cool White LED Strip Light Menard's SKU 946-2510.) They do say "cool White" but it's not bluish, but more like daylight (and the alternative choice Warm White is rather yellowish), and they list for $40. Compare what you see, but also consider ease of install. In this case, since you've already got shoplights, they will likely be easier, but the light strips won't be too far behind. Either is easier than the alternatives. Both remain useful, even if your endchoice turns out to be a third one.
What you may want to do here, particularly if the budget is tight, is to get a couple of the LED shoplights and a couple of the Menards LED light strips like I use (Patriot Cool White LED Strip Light Menard's SKU 946-2510.) They do say "cool White" but it's not bluish, but more like daylight (and the alternative choice Warm White is rather yellowish), and they list for $40. Compare what you see, but also consider ease of install. In this case, since you've already got shoplights, they will likely be easier, but the light strips won't be too far behind. Either is easier than the alternatives. Both remain useful, even if your endchoice turns out to be a third one.