Phils03 As a new user I am very excited about getting started on a small bluetooth layout. I don't see much current activity in this forum as of late. Is this still active? I have not been able to find a place to purchase bluetooth boards to automate trains and switches and lights. Can someone point me in the right direction? Bluerail site doesn't seem to offer products for sale.
As a new user I am very excited about getting started on a small bluetooth layout. I don't see much current activity in this forum as of late. Is this still active? I have not been able to find a place to purchase bluetooth boards to automate trains and switches and lights. Can someone point me in the right direction? Bluerail site doesn't seem to offer products for sale.
OTRR Thanks, Jack, for starting this thread. I recently procured a Bachmann Mogul with E-Z App board installed & I'm delighted with it. Operation is simple, smooth & easily adjusted. That said, would never try to tell someone with a DCC setup to change their control system. Since the hobby is to be enjoyed, anyone should use whichever system works beat for them, including standard DC. I chose bluetooth control because I have no DCC equipment & therefore saved a lot of startup cost. I recognize the current lesser amountof control I have compared to DCC, but this is alreding improving. One writer mentioned the opportunity to bring in more young folks using smart phones & bluetooth. This benefits all model railroaders since it will help support the manufacturers. Question: do any of you have experience installing onboard speakers so my sound can come from my train? Blue Rail has a Youtube video, the small speaker seems to be unavailable now. The BigR Audio Quark would probably work, but I would like to find something for fewer $$$. Has anyone removed the case on one & fitted the components in a boxcar behind the loco? Thanks for any advice.
Thanks, Jack, for starting this thread. I recently procured a Bachmann Mogul with E-Z App board installed & I'm delighted with it. Operation is simple, smooth & easily adjusted. That said, would never try to tell someone with a DCC setup to change their control system. Since the hobby is to be enjoyed, anyone should use whichever system works beat for them, including standard DC. I chose bluetooth control because I have no DCC equipment & therefore saved a lot of startup cost. I recognize the current lesser amountof control I have compared to DCC, but this is alreding improving. One writer mentioned the opportunity to bring in more young folks using smart phones & bluetooth. This benefits all model railroaders since it will help support the manufacturers.
Question: do any of you have experience installing onboard speakers so my sound can come from my train? Blue Rail has a Youtube video, the small speaker seems to be unavailable now. The BigR Audio Quark would probably work, but I would like to find something for fewer $$$. Has anyone removed the case on one & fitted the components in a boxcar behind the loco?
Thanks for any advice.
I remember the video the small speaker was called a groove cube as I recall and I picked up one at Walmart for about 10$. Not for ez app but I wired it up behind a drive in movie screen for music.
Joe Staten Island West
Next two products using Bluetooth Smart in which BlueRail Trains is involved are,
1) BlueRailDCC by Tam Valley is in final testing. Detail information on BlueRail Trains website [business link removed by moderator]
This product allows users to control any decoder using a smart device, with the option of not using a decoder at all, and to use any power source, including battery.
2) Second product under development integrates BlueRail with a sound decoder. Product will be available when the manufacturer (not Tam Valley) makes a product announcement.
Want current and more information - Suggest visiting: [groups.io link removed by moderator]
RR Baron
I know when new train control technologies come out the natural reaction is "how does this affect me?" . And it should. In the time this thread has existed, another established train control company has folded. I don't think anyone would argue that the hobby has been growing (in terms of numbers). I think the fact that the average age of a hobbyist goes up by one year every year is telling. DCC came out in the early 90's - right before many key technical advances occurred that might have impacted the protocol (had they been foreseen). The NMRA is left with the challenge of what to do. Everyone acknowledges the bus is overloaded with signals and the need for bi-directional control. Of course DCC equipment will always exist and always work, but there needs to be a pathway forward. They've started with LCC to address layout elements. That was a good move, but getting manufacturers and users onboard makes the process slow. The problem of where to go with train control is a sticky mess, which is why progress is slow. Rail Com is being developed, but you'll need to replace all your decoders and it doesn't seem to be problem free. So when a small startup introduces an "equipment free" technology, I think it should be regarded as a good thing. Bluetooth low energy might be one viable solution to add to the hobby's arsenal that might contribute to the path forward. There are undoubtedly startup costs associated with introducing a new technology. BlueRail seems to be doing all of their development and manufacturing of plugin boards in the US (which must raise the cost a little). For people who have hundreds of locomotives, even a $10 solution would be too much cost and effort to implement. I think someone with the ability to design these circuit boards probably has the technical capability to trigger sound decoders (there is a port on the board for that purpose). I understand consisting is about to release. I think anyone who is developing products to advance the hobby should be applauded, whether or not it is suitable for every existing layout out there. I wish all the best to Navin of Crest as they close their doors - they will be missed. I am glad a few souls are opting to open up shop in this difficult business, and I'd hope we would all wish them luck as well.
You know, there are few things I enjoy less than wading through 7 pages of posts on a thread that holds zero interest to me so I can weed out on-topic content from nastiness and snark.
If doing so becomes necessary, I'm not likely to bother figuring out who's being nasty to whom or who started it. I'm going to get my mod hammer and start swinging.
If you find yourself restating and re-restating your points because the other guy doesn't seem to get it, stop and consider that maybe you're wasting your time, and move along.
If you insist on continuing to try to make points that are obviously not going to be welcomed, do so civilly or go find another thread to bicker in. I've about had it with this one.
--Steven Otte, Model Railroader senior associate editorsotte@kalmbach.com
Sir Madog Fairly early on in this "discussion", I asked the question how many (participating in this forum, not all over the world) are actually using BlueRail or intend to use it. The question remained unanswered. From the contributions I could make out that only the OP is using it and a few may have an academic interest in it. Dead rail operation drew more attention, but a real discussion was as much not welcomed as with the topic of Bluetooth operation. In fact, the way the thread was started, was already a clear sign that anyone having a different opinion should better stay away. What an utterly arrogant attitude! No wonder this thread went down south, like the previous one! Here is my comment on BlueRail and Dead Rail! BlueRail is fantastic and if you don´t like it and see its potential, you are a fool and are rightfully excluded from this discussion! Dead Rail is fantastic and if you don´t like it and see its potential, you are a fool and are rightfully excluded from this discussion! Oh yeah? I don´t think both technologies stand a chance against conventional DC/DCC with power and signals supplied through the rails. They will remain a niche. To the OP - better move to a forum where your ideas will always get the applause you are looking for! In this forum, we still discuss in the true meaning of the word, but always come to an agreement, if only to disagree!
Fairly early on in this "discussion", I asked the question how many (participating in this forum, not all over the world) are actually using BlueRail or intend to use it. The question remained unanswered. From the contributions I could make out that only the OP is using it and a few may have an academic interest in it. Dead rail operation drew more attention, but a real discussion was as much not welcomed as with the topic of Bluetooth operation. In fact, the way the thread was started, was already a clear sign that anyone having a different opinion should better stay away.
What an utterly arrogant attitude! No wonder this thread went down south, like the previous one!
Here is my comment on BlueRail and Dead Rail!
BlueRail is fantastic and if you don´t like it and see its potential, you are a fool and are rightfully excluded from this discussion!
Dead Rail is fantastic and if you don´t like it and see its potential, you are a fool and are rightfully excluded from this discussion!
Oh yeah? I don´t think both technologies stand a chance against conventional DC/DCC with power and signals supplied through the rails. They will remain a niche.
To the OP - better move to a forum where your ideas will always get the applause you are looking for! In this forum, we still discuss in the true meaning of the word, but always come to an agreement, if only to disagree!
The OP has abandoned hope and stopped posting.
P.S. The moderators should take note of how nasty your posts can be - this one is a good example!
tstage Perhaps it's not an option at this point but powered frogs will fix the stalling issue. I never have a problem with my small S-, HH- and VO- switchers. Tom
Perhaps it's not an option at this point but powered frogs will fix the stalling issue. I never have a problem with my small S-, HH- and VO- switchers.
Tom
Of course I could power the frogs.
I guess its just a personal pet peeve that eventhough when I buy expensive modern sophisticated technology, I still have to rely upon installing 150 year old technology to actually make it work over turnouts, something that switchers do often. There is finally keep alive tech after about 20 years of DCC. Seems like it should have been there from day 1.
In that respect I'm with the dead rail BT guys, I would just just leapfrog the problem and use dead rail for small locos that don't have to travel very far away from the charging track. Small locos going a few feet only need a small battery, I would think, before they park back onto the charging track.
By their nature, switchers travel short distances, but over many frogs. I would think that this is where battery technology would shine.
It also has to do with the manufacturer of the loco too. Atlas seems to get it right since I've never had a problem with their onboard sound S series switchers traversing the frogs in their turnouts.
- Douglas
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
rrebell Maybe we should switch this discustion to why you are using or intending to use. Me, myself need an engine that will move very slowly though the turnouts in a yard for switching to start with. DCC with keepalive just won't cut it and not ever having to clean the track in the yard will be heaven.
Maybe we should switch this discustion to why you are using or intending to use. Me, myself need an engine that will move very slowly though the turnouts in a yard for switching to start with. DCC with keepalive just won't cut it and not ever having to clean the track in the yard will be heaven.
That's my interest in blutooth/deadrail as well. My DCC/onboard sound switchers will stall over dead frogs frequently enough to be discouraging. (The Atlas S2 has no problems and no switcher stalls with DC).
Ironically, the small locos that need deadrail on my layout are the locos that are challenged to have batteries fit into them at the present time, but I'm certainly intertested in seeing progress in that area.
A battery powered trackmobile with onboard sound that I could charge through a dedicated blocked spur at the grain elevator would pique my interest tremendously.
maxman rrinker If he can't take constructive criticism then I guess it is better for him to go back to a heavily moderated forum where no one can disagree instead of posting here. I'm sorry, Randy, but this one time I must disagree with you. The title of this thread was "for those ... who use it and would like to discuss it". From what I can see the majority of the posters here are not using the system. There is already another thread where the non-users or potential users can ask questions and/or debate the various merits or shortcomings of BlueRail. I don't see why we can't show some respect for the OP. So far as I'm concerned the moderator(s) should go through and delete any of the posts in this thread from a non-user or move them to the other thread. If that shrinks the posts from five pages down to one, so be it.
rrinker If he can't take constructive criticism then I guess it is better for him to go back to a heavily moderated forum where no one can disagree instead of posting here.
I'm sorry, Randy, but this one time I must disagree with you. The title of this thread was "for those ... who use it and would like to discuss it". From what I can see the majority of the posters here are not using the system. There is already another thread where the non-users or potential users can ask questions and/or debate the various merits or shortcomings of BlueRail. I don't see why we can't show some respect for the OP.
So far as I'm concerned the moderator(s) should go through and delete any of the posts in this thread from a non-user or move them to the other thread. If that shrinks the posts from five pages down to one, so be it.
The moderators by their actions, and our host by his limited input, have made it clear that they will not support the idea of a thread that is exclusionary in its nature.........
Sheldon
maxman The title of this thread was "for those ... who use it and would like to discuss it". From what I can see the majority of the posters here are not using the system. There is already another thread where the non-users or potential users can ask questions and/or debate the various merits or shortcomings of BlueRail. I don't see why we can't show some respect for the OP.
The title of this thread was "for those ... who use it and would like to discuss it". From what I can see the majority of the posters here are not using the system. There is already another thread where the non-users or potential users can ask questions and/or debate the various merits or shortcomings of BlueRail. I don't see why we can't show some respect for the OP.
I don't disagree that respect should be shown to the OP, and that users of Bluetooth should be the primary posters here. But I asked some simple questions in the hopes that users would help me understand things about Bluetooth..and later dead rail. And the answers were actually positive towards Bluetooth and dead rail.
Sometimes questions brings out the positive. And we don't know if the answer will shed positive or negative light onto the subject until we ask the question.
The thread would not have turned if it wasn't for objective questions and comments about the usefulness of new technology in certain applications being treated as heresy, which I find all too common in the tech arena, BTW. Its taken a bit too seriously for my taste.
maxmanSo far as I'm concerned the moderator(s) should go through and delete any of the posts in this thread from a non-user or move them to the other thread.
The moderator has already commented on your suggestion.
Steven Otte Folks, let's make something clear. The purpose of the Forums is to discuss topics concerning model trains. "Discuss" means "to exchange ideas and opinions back and forth." Even if those opinions are in opposition to each other. As long as people remain civil and on-topic, this thread will remain open. Stop reporting posts as "abuse" just because they disagree with you. [Addendum: Anyone attempting to get this thread shut down by deliberately going off-topic or goading others will be dealt with. Harshly.]
Folks, let's make something clear.
The purpose of the Forums is to discuss topics concerning model trains. "Discuss" means "to exchange ideas and opinions back and forth." Even if those opinions are in opposition to each other.
As long as people remain civil and on-topic, this thread will remain open.
Stop reporting posts as "abuse" just because they disagree with you.
[Addendum: Anyone attempting to get this thread shut down by deliberately going off-topic or goading others will be dealt with. Harshly.]
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
BuckscoNo offense but the thread was originally started to discuss the positive aspects of bluetooth control and has gone south like a previous thread.
Maybe you'd get a better reception over in the garden railroading forum where it's large scale, they generally have smaller loco fleets and don't mind handling the equipment.
rrinkerIf he can't take constructive criticism then I guess it is better for him to go back to a heavily moderated forum where no one can disagree instead of posting here.
tstage rrinker No one is saying it can't or won't work... It doesn't matter how many times you try reiterating your point above ad nauseum, all a few posters will ever hear you saying is "can't work" and "won't work". That's the real shame of this thread...
rrinker No one is saying it can't or won't work...
No one is saying it can't or won't work...
It doesn't matter how many times you try reiterating your point above ad nauseum, all a few posters will ever hear you saying is "can't work" and "won't work". That's the real shame of this thread...
I don't know why, but system of train control seems to be an emotional thing really. Its like there is a huge investment made and people need to be validated about their choice. All control systems work. Depending upon preferences and tolerances, some work better than others.
That is what discussion is about, to examine in what circumstances one might work better than others. In a public forum, there are going to be questions about what happens when this circumstance or that circumstance prevails.
But to have to carry a belief that one system works better than all others in all circumstances seems to involve a level of misplaced devotion towards something that really doesn't matter, IMO.
Bucksco Instead of discussing how it CAN work the thread keeps being diverted to why it CAN'T.
Instead of discussing how it CAN work the thread keeps being diverted to why it CAN'T.
Randy,
This conversation reminds me of the following Far Side cartoon:
Bucksco No offense but the thread was originally started to discuss the positive aspects of bluetooth control and has gone south like a previous thread. Instead of discussing how it CAN work the thread keeps being diverted to why it CAN'T. The gentleman who just left is a good example of someone trying to infuse some practical knowledge (gained by use of Bluetooth and battery power) being turned off by folks who have never used either telling him why it can't possibly work well. It is a shame .....
No offense but the thread was originally started to discuss the positive aspects of bluetooth control and has gone south like a previous thread. Instead of discussing how it CAN work the thread keeps being diverted to why it CAN'T. The gentleman who just left is a good example of someone trying to infuse some practical knowledge (gained by use of Bluetooth and battery power) being turned off by folks who have never used either telling him why it can't possibly work well. It is a shame .....
Jack, I will say it again, it does work, but its limitations make it not useful to me.
My position all along is that if they fix the limitations, I might be interested.
But I will repeat, no consisting, limited number of locos, these are non starters for me.
But again, I am very interested in the development of direct radio command control - bluetooth or otherwise.
If he can't take constructive criticism then I guess it is better for him to go back to a heavily moderated forum where no one can disagree instead of posting here. No one is saying it can't or won't work. Personal preference, but I'm reasonably certain there are more modelers who would rather NOT handle their locos excessively, certainly not every few hours when the batteries need a recharge.
All other command control systems, all the way back to the very first ASTRAC, developed from a desire for more realistic operation. Not for how gee whiz it all was, but to operate more like the real thing without artificial limits imposed by electric power requirements. Later developments created straight DC systems that could do practically anything without modifications to the locos and without operators having to perform unrealistic functions like switch block toggles. For any new system to make decent inroads, these issues have to be addressed. Otherwise it will be stuck (for smaller scales) with the 'round and round' types.
Look, if you have a better moustrap, I'm all for it. Having to pick up every loco to plug it in to a charger or swap a battery pack is a deal breaker. $75 per locomotive and it doesn't even include sound (on board - choo choo sounds coming from my throttle sounds like one of those battery operated toys, even if the sound is high quality) is a deal breaker. Not being able to MU is a deal breaker. No one is saying it can't be done or is impossible, these are just things that need to change to broaden the appeal of the product.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Bucksco Pete Steinmetz Guys: It seems like there is a majority of people that are telling us why something doesn't work or finding fault. I wonder how many of these modelers have ever tried Dead Rail? Charging through the track is certainly a way to charge batteries. It is more complicated than plugging in a loco, but it will charge the batteries. I just choose not to charge this way. Personal preference. At this point I'm going to remove myself from this discussion. There have been very few questions asked that I can answer. I came on here to hopefully answer questions, but instead of asking, many posts were telling me how to do it or how not to do it.. For those that are interested in Dead Rail, you are welcome to visit the following sites. www.bluerailtrains.com www.deadrailsociety.com deadrailsociety-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Facebook Dead Rail Society There is much information and questions are answered. I will say, there is zero tollerance for nastyness or negative attacks. Nobody wants to know why it won't work, because for most it is working fine for them or they are trying to determine if Dead Rail is they way they should go. There are people that charge through the rails and they will offer advice and their experience in a positive manner. Peace, Out Pete I know exactly how you feel Pete!
Pete Steinmetz Guys: It seems like there is a majority of people that are telling us why something doesn't work or finding fault. I wonder how many of these modelers have ever tried Dead Rail? Charging through the track is certainly a way to charge batteries. It is more complicated than plugging in a loco, but it will charge the batteries. I just choose not to charge this way. Personal preference. At this point I'm going to remove myself from this discussion. There have been very few questions asked that I can answer. I came on here to hopefully answer questions, but instead of asking, many posts were telling me how to do it or how not to do it.. For those that are interested in Dead Rail, you are welcome to visit the following sites. www.bluerailtrains.com www.deadrailsociety.com deadrailsociety-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Facebook Dead Rail Society There is much information and questions are answered. I will say, there is zero tollerance for nastyness or negative attacks. Nobody wants to know why it won't work, because for most it is working fine for them or they are trying to determine if Dead Rail is they way they should go. There are people that charge through the rails and they will offer advice and their experience in a positive manner. Peace, Out Pete
Guys:
It seems like there is a majority of people that are telling us why something doesn't work or finding fault.
I wonder how many of these modelers have ever tried Dead Rail?
Charging through the track is certainly a way to charge batteries. It is more complicated than plugging in a loco, but it will charge the batteries. I just choose not to charge this way. Personal preference.
At this point I'm going to remove myself from this discussion. There have been very few questions asked that I can answer. I came on here to hopefully answer questions, but instead of asking, many posts were telling me how to do it or how not to do it..
For those that are interested in Dead Rail, you are welcome to visit the following sites.
www.bluerailtrains.com
www.deadrailsociety.com
deadrailsociety-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Facebook Dead Rail Society
There is much information and questions are answered.
I will say, there is zero tollerance for nastyness or negative attacks. Nobody wants to know why it won't work, because for most it is working fine for them or they are trying to determine if Dead Rail is they way they should go.
There are people that charge through the rails and they will offer advice and their experience in a positive manner.
Peace, Out
Pete
I know exactly how you feel Pete!
But of course it was OK for him to tell me what was "wrong" with my thinking.......even when he obviously had not read the whole thread.
Threads about control systems are always touchy.
Just like choosing to model the NYC instead of the PRR, or a one-horse shortline over a busy Class I, the choice to use one control system over another is often a matter of choice. Its not logic, its a personal want.
Bluetooth is fine. Battery powered dead rail is fine. As is DCC and DC. If a person makes a top priority out of having the rails absolutely dead, then they will make other choices about the hobby in a way that satisfies that priority. If they want to make using their current smartphone as a throttle a top priority, then they will make other choices in a way that satisfies that priority. Same for DCC and DC. Same for signaling. Same for modeling the NYC. Same for modeling a one-horse shortline. Some "wants" are more important than others, and decisions about lesser priorities are made in a way that satisfies the top priorities.
In that vain, I understand the point of the thread. Its for those who "want" to use BlueTooth and want to discuss it. Or, "want" to use dead rail.
But understand, when advancements in technology are presented as being a more logical way of controlling trains, others will be quick to point out why it makes no sense for them.
Consider the possibility that adopting new technology and new ways of doing things doesn't make a person more logical, more open-minded, or more progressive than those who don't. Some people like to mess with new technology because they find it fun. I like to model a one-horse shortline because its fun, and I wouldn't present my choice as being anything else other than that.
Something not brought up yet about dead rail is battery life and continuing expense. How long do they last? Not just in usage, but just sitting on the shelf? I still own locomotives I bought 25 years ago (Atlas, brass, etc.). I still have my first DCC decoder that was installed in 2000. In 15 or 25 years (or more), will a battery from today still take a charge? I rather doubt it.
When it comes time to replace it, will one be able to replace like for like? Even Digitrax and Soundtraxx had to cancel existing product lines and quickly replace them because basic components were no longer available. If one has designed a battery installation to fit the confines of a loco (like in a fuel tank or small tender) and that form factor (at the same electrical ratings) is no longer around, then what?
How much do they cost? If one has 50 engines with batteries, and they need replacing every 5 or 10 years, that will add up pretty quickly even at $5 ea.
Paul A. Cutler III