Thoughts on the new product?
They are retailing for $104 at Trainworld.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami2/index.php
They basicly combined the Tsunami (1) and the Econami features together, and improved the DDE effects.
What does everyone think?
Charles
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Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I'm planning on buying the upcoming Athearn SDP40F. The sound version will be equipped with the new "Tsu-2" decoder. I'm glad that Soundtraxx has updated the Tsunami series.
On another forum I asked if the Tsu-2 is "uploadable" like Loksound's decoders. The answer is no, which surprised me. I may be looking at this incorrectly, but it seems that Soundtraxx's mindset is that by offering the Tsu-2 with a large load of new and updated sound schemes along with a better motor control system, customers will be satisfied with the decoder for some years to come before the time comes to produce the Tsu-3 in 5 or so years. So, perhaps Soundtraxx feels that making Tsu-2 uploadable is either unnecessary, too costly, or there is a concern that software sharks could reverse engineer it.
But as I stated before, I'll keep an open mind with regards to performance and the "music".
We will likely see a "slew" of reviews on YouTube on the Tsu-2 as well as a few on the SDP40F itself. If the reviews performed by credible vendors and modelers show that the motor control has been improved and the sound scheme for that particular locomotive is accurate and sounds crispy clean, I'll strongly consider purchasing a Tsu-2 equpped unit.
If not, I'll get non-sound versions and install Loksound V4.0's.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Hi Charles:
What do I think? I think I'm not interested. (Now there's a blockhead statement if there ever was one!) No disrespect intended Charles, or anyone else for that matter.
Here is where my (block) head is at:
I need about a dozen more sound decoders to outfit my current fleet. That is whole lot of money in anybody's books. Why would I take a chance on investing in stock 'B' which has had mixed past performance when stock 'A' (i.e. Loksound) is consistently performing at the top of the market and will continue to do so?
I'm going to continue to spend my money on Loksound Selects partly because Loksound has just released the new 'Full Throttle' engine revs control option, and mostly because I have had great experiences with Loksound vs some rather negative experiences with the original Tsunamis.
If the Tsunami 2 decoders were said to be vastly superior to Loksound then I would definitely give them a try, but that is not the case, at least not so far.
Pardon my prejudices. It is my money. Anybody who wants to give me a new Tsunami 2 please do so and I will gladly give it a try.
Regards,
(Blockhead) Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I'll be installing one tomorrow in a Bachmann Shay, I'm quite excited to hear it and run it. I'll report back when successful. (of course I'm not a reputable dealer mentioned above so take it as you wish)
Loksound whatever, I run steam, so the latest gimmicks from Loksound don't interest me. I purchased one for a brass Shay and it was no sound out of the box, had to send it back, still waiting for a replacement, seems there is low stock as I have been waiting since the end of May. Those boats across the pond are kinda slow I guess.
I will always try a product before doing what all the cool kids are doing, the jury is still out since I haven't received a working Loksound yet.
Tsunami is manufactured in Colorado, and yes, that still means something to me. They also have a long successful track record with me, I see no reason to change just because some can't make a loco creep.
BTW-Harris Hobbies is selling them for $98 and change, which is where I buy my supplies (and he keeps an inventory)
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared steam, I can't understand those that bash a decoder when it can't allow a locomotive to move at 0,01 mph? Have they even seen a real locomotive start or move along?
I'm very happy with the new motor control on Soundtraxx decoders.
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
I have had no problems with the Tsunami decoders. Speed control is excellent and sound is great. Can't wait for Tsunami 2.
Graffen,
This isn't about bashing the Tsunami (one or two).
Understandably, nearly all decoders require a tiny amount of tweaking. However, the main issue regarding the original Diesel Tsunami has not been about the ability to crawl at micro-slow speed. It's been about its, overall, slow speed performance and control.
Take a look at some YouTube vids where modelers are showing off their Tsunami equipped locomotives. Locomotives take off at 3 to 5 smph instead of easing smoothly into motion. The same units then slow down smoothly but during the last few seconds of the motion, they stop in an almost abrupt, jerk-like fashion (the engineers and firemen should have hit the windshields! ).
Quick take-offs and stops would be OK for a prototype SW9 or S1 not pulling a load (when light, EMD and Alco switchers could take off and stop like automobiles), but not six axle giants like a U33C or SD40T-2. Add to that, there was the engine rpm to motion synchronization issue, particularly when throttling down. You slow down and completely stop your unit, but the diesel prime mover is still "rpm-ing" in Run-4 before slowing down to an idle.
Now, some modelers are ok with this and I don't criticize them. But having spent a lot of time around prototype diesels, it bugged me a bit.
Solutions did come up, including this one:
http://www.trainweb.org/gnw/BEMF%20Tuning.htm
Maybe I'm overblowing the sitiation, but my feeling was (and still is): "Why go through the hassle?" There was a quality decoder available with an almost hassle-free motor/speed control program (Loksound).
To be fair, it's too early in the game regarding the Tsu-2. I'm sure that Soundtraxx was listening to the input from modelers, so it stands to reason that this updated version will (hopefully) offer smoother motor control without having to spend a lot of time tweaking, testing, setting, adjusting, and then tweaking it some more to enable prototype style operation.
Graffen Geared steam, I can't understand those that bash a decoder when it can't allow a locomotive to move at 0,01 mph? Have they even seen a real locomotive start or move along? I'm very happy with the new motor control on Soundtraxx decoders.
My biggest problem with the Tsunami decoders was how they handled the sound schedule. If I'm moving along at a good clip and slam the throttle off (kicking cars in the yard), the sound too should also immediately drop to idle. Instead, the engine was sitting there still for nearly 15 seconds while the prime mover came down notch by notch. For this reason alone, I could not get interested in sound as it did not replicate sound vs. movement accurately. Hopefully they got that fixed with the new release.
Too late for me though - when Loksound started doing things right, I jumped on board with them.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
AntonioFP45Understandably, nearly all decoders require a tiny amount of tweaking...Solutions did come up, including this one: http://www.trainweb.org/gnw/BEMF%20Tuning.htm Maybe I'm overblowing the sitiation, but my feeling was (and still is): "Why go through the hassle?" There was a quality decoder available with an almost hassle-free motor/speed control program (Loksound).
Antonio,
But isn't user-uploadable content the end-all, be-all wondorous achievement of Lok? That you never need a new decoder because you just keep upgrading software load in the old? Then what do users do with it? Do they go out and make their own sound files? Not much that I've heard. They're waiting on Lok to provide them with the next version, which will be just like everyone else's. And yeah, it doesn't need much tweaking, because I'm not sure that's the intent, mostly just to play the recording, which gets better, sort of like buying 45s used to be back in the 60s. The latest and greatest, stamped out for the masses. The amount of sound creativity the end user gets is limited, maybe not so much as the old treble vs bass control, but something like that.
On the other hand, the Tsunami is more like buying an instrument to play the music. Golly, sounds awful that first few months of practice. Then you steadily get better by learning your instrument, until you're enough in command of it to use it to create the sound that suits you personally.
So I tend to find the user-uploadable feature to be a bit ironic is that it seems to require little user input, in fact that's not even what users expect, they just expect it to work right out of the box, with minimal if any user involvement beyond installation.
The Tsunami is like that guitar that made your fingertips bleed before it started producing anything much tasty. I'm one of those failed guitarists
Do I blame the guitar? I don't think so.
And I'm still learning ways to improve and further tweak my now nearly 10 year old 1st gen Tsunamis. I'm sure there's still potential for further improvement, because I've not been as determined to make rapid progress as I could have been. The Tsunami has lots of potential. The design philosophy is much more about involving the end users in learning to make their own efforts to adjust the sound to their preference.
But if you were expecting out of the box sounds great with no other input needed, then people should buy the Lok. It fits well with the attendant comfort of instant gratification effective marketing keys into.
The Lok and the Tsunami are very different in terms of their design philosophy and in what they expect in terms of user involvement. If you want a nice turn key solution that sounds like the next guy's then the Lok is for you. If you want to get to know your sound better and learn to shape it to suit, then the Tsunami is probably going to make you just as happy, if not more so.
And It would be really nice if people could discuss the TsuII in terms oif what it is, not in terms of what the original was in their perception. People don't hold old Loks against Lok? Why do they do that with the Tsunami?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehmanAnd I'm still learning ways to improve and further tweak my now nearly 10 year old 1st gen Tsunamis. I'm sure there's still potential for further improvement,
mlehmanthe Tsunami is more like buying an instrument to play the music. Golly, sounds awful that first few months of practice. Then you steadily get better by learning your instrument, until you're enough in command of it to use it to create the sound that suits you personally.
I'm sorry Mike, but I'm in the other camp. I'd rather run my locomotives than spend a bunch of time on the program track trying to get things to work properly. I have been quite happy with how my Loksounds sound right out of the box, and I can hardly wait until I install the latest 'Full Throttle' engine revolution speed controls.
Please understand that I'm not being critical of your choices. Obviously you enjoy doing the programming, and I admire the fact that you have become so proficient at it. Also, I agree that it is too early to judge the Tsunami 2. However, it will take some pretty serious accolades for me to try one when I am completely satisfied with the Loksound products.
Regards
Dave
Dave,
I think this is a case where people believe they are only talking about apples, when it's an apples vs oranges thing. Lok saw an opportunity here to serve those who want the little box to play what the "best" version of the sound they want to hear coming from their trains.
The Tsunami is more about those who want to play "my" version of the sound that's desired.
Frankly, if I did this all over again, Lok's has more immediate appeal on paper...but then there is the Lok "steam deficit"...so while it's been irritating to need to research and learn more before I could get the performance I wanted, in the end it was worth the trouble.
Were I in diesels only, it might be a different matter.
Here, all I'm saying is there really is no universally "best" sound decoder, although you wouldn't know it the way the Lok is typically portrayed. It does what it does best, but that leaves room for others that the Tsunami has satisfied. People shouldn't make decisions on what they read or hear said about the decoders. Rather they should base it on what the hear from the decoder in something close to the the desired installation. Ideally, it would be an install by someone who had at least a basic grasp of the opportunities the Tsunami provides vs the "can't be bothered to read the manual" version.
Then there's the WOW, which tends to split the difference between the other two, at least on paper.
In reality, people hearing them together would probably remark on how similar many aspects of each is to the others. When there are differences, it's rarely the completely cringeworthy difference it's often made out to by the partisans of different decoders. Of course, people want to buy what makes them happy. I'm not at all suggesting your decision is wrong - or anyone else's here is either. I'm simply suggesting that people should make these decision based on what they experience in audio terms, not someone saying we should all buy Lok, because it scores 97 vs 93 for the Tsu vs 96 for the WOW. Those small differences at the end tend to be what matters to the individual user and may be contrary to what the "internet consensus" seems to be.
Hi Mike:
I do have to admit that I was speaking from a diesel perspective. So far, I only have two steamers with decoders in them, and my knowledge of proper steam sounds is pretty limited. Actually, I'm no expert with diesel either when it comes to it.
I recently dug out an old Tyco 4-6-0 that I bought new in kit form a long time ago. I think I paid $10.00. I believe it has an MRC decoder in it. I installed new neodimium magnets in the motor and it runs quite well. It would be a great candidate for the Tsunami 2 if they prove to be as good as everyone hopes they will be. We shall see what people have to say about them. I'm not a total blockhead, just mostly.
Trainman440They basicly combined the Tsunami (1) and the Econami features together, and improved the DDE effects.
Charles,
I wanted to return to your basic inquiry and away from the "Decoder Olympics" discussion about exactly who scores the Gold medal, because I heard an interesting view on the comparison between the next gen Tsunami and the Econami just today from one of the visiting operators among the dozen I've hosted the last two days for some preNMRA Convention operating.
He has 23 locos he wants to convert to DCC. He intends to go with the Econami. Why not the TsunamiII? Too expensive given the numbers of locos he needs to convert and you can now get most of that same Tsunami goodness in a less expensive form. Why not one of the other "superior" brand decoders? Seems in his experience out operating, he's found the Tsunami is well-regarded, widely used, reliable, and sounds good to him. Repackage the Tsunami goodness in Econami form and price it lower...what's not to like?
Now, people could argue this fellow and his friends all have a tin ear. Maybe so, when you're 18 you can hear lots you won't hear at 45. Like the great speaker wars of the 70s, you've got to have great ears to hear enough of a difference to make the $5,000/pair speakers sound more satisfying than the $1,000/pair version. Guess what? The people with the wallets to afford the difference mostly couldn't hear it. Lots of industry fallout from that, but if your marketing was good enough, you could convince people they were hearing that $4,000 difference even though that was unlikely.
Yet another point that it's important to understand about buying sound that's often overlooked in looking through the "absolute best" lens in a more pragmatic manner.
You're no blockhead, you can carry a conversation, a form of human commnucation that seems to be dying on the internet.
hon30critterI recently dug out an old Tyco 4-6-0 that I bought new in kit form a long time ago. I think I paid $10.00. I believe it has an MRC decoder in it. I installed new neodimium magnets in the motor and it runs quite well. It would be a great candidate for the Tsunami 2 if they prove to be as good as everyone hopes they will be. We shall see what people have to say about them. I'm not a total blockhead, just mostlySmile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh.
Might try an Econami on that one, based on the anecdote from today's ops session I just related.
Mind you, it's ability to shape sound is somewhat cut back from what the Tsunamis offer. That's a sign that Soundtraxx recognizes that not everyone needs all that user adjustability, that many find it superfluous to their needs, and they want to revive that low end part of their line that's been neglected while the Tsunami got the spotlight.
One very important clarification here...
The 1st gen Tsunami had DDE in the steam versions only.
I never realized it was missing until after being in a very similar discussion I thought, "Don't they realize they can tune the DDE?" So went to look at the documentation and...gues what? No DDE for diesel Tsunamis...until now!
The fact that the Tsunami II has DDE for diesels, too, is probably the biggest improvement that makes a difference for me. I have a number of diesels I'd like to install sound on and DDE is important to getting the sound I want. I guessing many of those who found the original diesel tsu lacking never knew this part that was a vital part of the steam version was lacking.
Mike:
I think that if I was to invest in a Soundtraxx decoder I would go all the way just to see what they are capable of. Otherwise, given my limited knowledge of steam sounds, I would stick with Loksound Selects.
Having said that, you made reference to "....the Lok "steam deficit"... Can you explain what you are referring to?
Thanks
I have to ask what 'DDE' is?
Maybe I'm having a senior's moment but I don't recognize the term.
hon30critterHaving said that, you made reference to "....the Lok "steam deficit"... Can you explain what you are referring to?
Oh, I was just having a little fun, while trying to open up the conversation about how different decoder manufacturers take different philosophical approaches to their products.
People often mention how the sounds of Lok decoders are very specific...at least when it comes to diesel. But you rarely hear people talking about Lok's steam decoders on this side of the pond. They do have some that sound pretty specific for a number of German locos. For North America, they have the Big Boy, Sp Cab Forward and N&W Ys, some geared locos, but then it gets pretty thin other than what are described as basically for generic wheel arrangements. Got no direct experience with them , but seems that few do in English. Might this be a "steam deficit"? Could be, but it's less subjective than some things that get repeated as if they were absolute truths about Tsunamis.
DDE is "Dynamic Digital Exhaust." From the Soundtraxx page: http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami2/index.php
"Tsunami2 is equipped with our newly designed Dynamic Digital Exhaust (DDE), which automatically adjusts the volume and engine RPM schedule to simulate the locomotive producing a range of power during operation. Engine RPM increases as the DDE processor detects greater amounts of demand on the motor, and it reduces as the demand is lifted."
I haven't tried or heard it in person with diesel yet, but hope to get a good listen at the big train show in Indianapolis on Friday. In steam, it is what gives you the sound of the loco digging in at the bottom of the grade as it senses the increased current draw, allows it to notch back as things level out and to drift as things turn into a downgrade. The idea is that the loco reacts automatically in the same way as it would if it were the prototype.
In the 1st gen steam Tsu, this involved 4 CVs. IIRC, in the new diesel DDE, there are 8 involved. Since it reacts by measuring tiny differences in electrical load, in the past the only way to get the full effect is by dialing in each loco that you enable DDE on, usually through one of the menus that users trade among each other that get you in the ballpark of where the best settings are. You then do some testing on the actual layout to detemine if you're getting the best sound and adjust accordlingly.
The effect is quite striking, especially with some reverb dialed in. Users are generally pretty happy with it, although a few gripe about the adjustments needed to implement it (maybe they're used to plug and play Loks? and it is not enabled by default, the user has to do this.) Perhaps this has been simplified in the TsuII?
As I noted, I could see immediately that the lack of DDE in diesel likely lay at the root of some of the things people complained about over the 1st gen diesel Tsunami. Or at least they might more likely overlook what are considered the Tsunami's weak spots by some because of the positive buzz from DDE in the TsuII.
In any case, those users who declare themselves unimpressed by the new diesel Tsunami without giving DDE a listen aren't really fully informed about the choices now available.
Mlehman,
Very good, and well detailed responses and I think I better understand the benefits in relation to steam.
Quote Mlehman - But if you were expecting out of the box sounds great with no other input needed, then people should buy the Lok. It fits well with the attendant comfort of instant gratification effective marketing keys into. - End Quote
Instand gratification? I disagree with that view since once uploaded the sounds may need some tweaking to "the ear's taste".
On another note, keep in mind that the Tsunami does not have certain desired sound schemes that can be obtained via an uploadable system. For example, Tsunami does not have a horn for an Amtrak E60 (Nathan P-01235). You can upload one to a Lok unit (I think one is now available). But if not, I've already ripped a clean E60 horn recording from the web that can be edited and uploaded to a Lok unit.
Another case, that was a pet peeve for me, was the air let-off (pop off) sound. Tsunami's let-off was a short, 1-second burst and the duration was not adjustable. Back in the day, some railroads tended to neglect expello valves and, as a result, some "pop-offs" could last between 3 and 5 seconds! Listen to this prototype example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK71esIcNQE
That's a feature I wanted for some of my SCL units. A friend of mine found a long burst on ESU's website! Cool factor is that there are variations of the air let-off sound. So, again, the uploadable feature is of value, at least to some of us.
Quote Mlehman- ........Golly, sounds awful that first few months of practice. Then you steadily get better by learning your instrument, until you're enough in command of it to use it to create the sound that suits you personally. - end quote.
Well now it sounds like you're describing the Lok set up, to a degree. Like the Tsunami, the sounds can be "good enough" to start out but can be incredible once carefully adjusted and fine tuned with the programmer (which isn't a quick 2 minute job). However, the Tsunami's equalizer feature is a nice plus in this area.
Quote Mlehman - And It would be really nice if people could discuss the TsuII in terms oif what it is, not in terms of what the original was in their perception. People don't hold old Loks against Lok? Why do they do that with the Tsunami? - end quote
Yes, agreed. Actually there have been discussions comparing Lok V3.5 vs Lok V4.0 and QSI Revolution vs QSI Titan.
As I stated, I'm not bashing the Tsunami and am not blindly loyal to one manufacturer. I'm also curious about the TCS Wow, which isn't uploadable either but also brings impressive features with it.
I was just pointing why I initially didn't go for the diesel Tsunami version. I noticed a few others had similar sentiments. But I've also stated that I keep an open mind and am very curious about the Tsu-2, especially since the sound-version Athearn SDP40F will be equipped with it. I'm looking forward to seeing/"hearing" demos.
Good response and one I mostly can agree with. And far more thoughtful than much I read online about the Lok, which is a great decoder, just not manna from heaven.
Especially good to hear that someone's actually doing something with the capabilities that the Lok brings to the table.
I've sat through way too many discussions where people say, "Well, the Lok lets the user upload stuff and the Tsunami is just the pits because you're stuck with what's on it..."
And?
Nothing about how they MIGHT put the file upload feature to work, other than loading what Lok sends them. Thus my analogy to Lok being a jukebox with your choice of 45s.
Nothing about how the user can -- and frankly should -- alter and redefine the sound from the Tsunami default output and it will quickly improve. No, it's not a Lok -- and a Lok is not a Tsunami. Yes, the Lok does have equalization, just not to the extent that the Tsunami offers. Maybe Soundtraxx should put in a nicely crafted version of the default Tsunami sound and then add a "easy" button to activate it to capture the plug and play Lok customer?
Probably the surest sign that many comments about the "vast" superiority of the Lok are the thousands of narrowgauge Tsu users who like them just fine -- although a few started griping about some of the new "bells and whistles" Lok and WOW offer now not being avaiable from Soundtraxx. If the old Tsu was truly as bad as some seem to think, then you'd be hearing about lots of Blackstones being rebuilt with other decoders. So far, that's rare as hen's teeth. Admittedly, most narrowgaugers have no use for diesels...NOT me!
...so I rather doubt the diesel deficiencies of the first gen Tsu were of much concern to them. I'd expect the Tsu2 will correct many of the issues some found with the original. And if it doesn't get them all, then I expect these to be more on the order of a difference than a "deficiency." Going to Indy to hear for myself this week.
I think you had that earlier reply maybe backwards. For motor control, sure, Loksound is more "out of the box" ready without tweaking (or else just use th auto config) whereas Tsunami needs some tweaking to optimize. But in regards to sound, it's completely the opposite. One example is that Loksound has recently released their equivalent of the DDE with loud sensing and proper brake functionality - but I don;t need a new decoder. I can take one of the locos I already have fitted with a Loksound and upgrade it without taking the shell off. And they are always improving the sound files, like the ones they've been doing for various OEMs like Bowser and Rapido, which are available to others as well. The forthcoming Alco 244 for the Rapido FA's is exactly what I'll need for mine, and they have upgraded Baldwin sounds recorded from the running Baldwins at SMS which are perfect for my switcher fleet. The Baldwin sounds in there already are good, but the newer ones are even better, fresh modern recordings. There's a LOT of tweaking you can do with Select, without having to compose sound scripts or do any complex programming - with the 4.0 decoders, you can do it all. Which is another nice thing even compared to other brands which do let you customeze to that level - if I want to, I can, by using a v4.0 decoder. If I don't want to mess around with that stuff (and it can get pretty complicated, definitely), I don't have to, i can use the Select decoders. Personally I will mostly stick with Select. I did do one v4.0, but all I did was swap the horn sounds with the proper horn to match my prototype (after I went to the effort of replacing the actual horn on the model with the right one, I wanted the right sound as well) which was not very difficult - no messing with any sound schedules or events.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
To a certain degree, what we're seeing is convergence, where everyone expects everything to have all the same bells and whistles in some form or fashion. Then it gets to be a matter of how user-friendly the interaction is. DecoderPro has helped a lot in that regard, as I've heard the Lok has hundreds of CVs --and the Tsu 2 is headed that way. Neither would be very user friendly without DP.
BTW, now that Soundtraxx has finally moved everyone under the same roof, the are supposed to be considerable improvements in the sound facilities. There will likely be some improvements made in those facilities beyond simply more SF available.
Found a vid on YouTube featuring a Tsunami-2 equipped Athearn SD40-2 (the link is below).
The narrator is impressed with it and, to me, it sounds decent. So I'm assuming that this is what the new Athearn SDP40F will sound like (except for the horn and bell, of course). I hope that the motorcontrol is as smooth as Loksound's. That would make the Tsu-2 much more competitive.
I know I'm picky due to my past railfanning jaunts but, sound-wise, my pet peeve here is still that double-air let off! It's appropriate for brand new Dash 2's, not units with mileage and wear. Unless the "pop-off" can be adjusted to a single, longer burst, this will likely be a deal-breaker for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKTkzJg8RfI
Since my original post I have installed a TSU 2 and a Loksound Micro. I'm only referring to steam versions and sound, so apologies concerning those interested in diesel versions.
The motor control on both Bachmann 3T Shays, one with a TSU 2, the other with Loksound is a draw, but of course, these are shays right? they're suppose to creep.
Sound......the TSU 2 has vastly improved in this department (BTW I'm using the large sugarcube from Soundtraxx on both decoders) BUT, I really like the Loksounds whistle and horn selection over the TSU 2, the braking sound is also much better than the TSU 2 that uses same old squeal (sounds to me) we have all heard for years.
Last-Keep alive connections, TSU 2 clearly wins over ESU in this department, as far as connecting a keep alive to the decoder. TSU is a plug, ESU requires 3 wires be soldered (after removing part of the protective film) to three very small solder pads, and the manual (to me at first) failed to clearly point out exactly where the correct solder pads.
I have no issues soldering these, it just caused some nervous reaction from me on a brand new decoder.
This is just my experience, if I had to choose, I will probably go with Loksound based on pricing first, decoder size second, and sounds being third.
Reprogramming a decoder is not an interest of mine, or spending $150.00 on a programmer. I have never felt cheated because I couldn't upload sounds to my Tsunamis or TCS WOW decoders.