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Decoder not responding to cv changes.

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Decoder not responding to cv changes.
Posted by SouthPenn on Monday, June 13, 2016 3:10 PM

A while back I purchased two used RS-1s locomotives. They were not in boxes but on the bottom of the locomotives was "KATO-Made in Japan"

Inside there is a printed circut board plugged into the lighting board via an 8 pin connector. There are too many parts on this board to be just for lights, so I presumed it was a DCC Decoder. There is no sound.

I put one of the engines on my program track ( an NCE Power Pro system ) and it read back to me manufacturer code #11, which is NCE. I tried to clear the decoder by putting the number 2 into CV30. It did clear some CVs but not all. The short address stayed at 15 instead of the usual 3. The long address should have been 0000, but instead it was 115. I changed the long address to 213 and put it on the layout. It runs great. But it accelerates and de-accelerates extremely fast. I put the engine on the program track and set CV-3 to 10 and CV-4 to 4. But nothing changed, the engine still accelerates and de-accelerates extremely fast. Checking CV-3 and it had 10 in it and CV-4 had 4 in it. I did the same thing to the second engine and got the same results. I can change the address, but there is no response when changing other CVs.

Any ideas as to why I get no response after changing CV values?  

South Penn
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  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
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Posted by Guy Papillon on Monday, June 13, 2016 5:21 PM

Writing 2 in CV 30 will bring back all CVs to factory settings, not clear them all. That said, I can't explain why the short address was still 15 after reset.

SouthPenn

 I put the engine on the program track and set CV-3 to 10 and CV-4 to 4. 

Why didn't you try 0 for CVs 3 & 4? This is the factory setting for these CVs.

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 4:37 AM

SouthPenn

I put one of the engines on my program track ( an NCE Power Pro system ) and it read back to me manufacturer code #11, which is NCE. I tried to clear the decoder by putting the number 2 into CV30. It did clear some CVs but not all. The short address stayed at 15 instead of the usual 3. The long address should have been 0000, but instead it was 115. I changed the long address to 213 and put it on the layout. 

I am beginning to wonder if you are in Service Mode, not Operations Mode. It just could be, although a short address of 15 is a valid short address.

However, you mentioned a long address of 115. Did you mean a short address of 115?  

Service Mode instruction packets have a short address in the range of decimal 112 to 127.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SouthPenn on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:18 AM

Thanks for the replies!

I have tried multiple times to reset the decoders. Doesn't work.

I have tried different numbers from 0 to 50 in CV-3 and CV-4. No changes.

I have tried multiple address from 3 to 1215, no help.

Yes, I am in service mode. Service Mode just means you are programing on a programing track and you are capable of changing addresses.

Short addresses are two digits long. Long addresses are three to four digits long. I have tried a few of each.

I have found out that the NCE decoders can be locked and unlocked using CV-15 and CV-16. I've tried to unlock the decoders but no help.

Back to the NCE web site.....

 

South Penn
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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 11:45 AM

Call NCE.

They will walk you through a solution.

Tell them you are in Service Mode.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SouthPenn on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:20 PM

I found out the decoder was installed by Tony's Train Exchange. I have contacted them for any help they can give me.

I have also contacted NCE.

South Penn
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:25 PM

Let us know what happens.

I could be wrong, but I don't think you should be trying to program in Service Mode.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, June 14, 2016 7:13 PM

 Shouldn't matter how you program it. Service Mode is just program track. Ops Mode is programming on the main. A plain old motor decoder should work fine either way. Sound decoders with inrush issues, if they won't work on the program track, usually work in Ops Mode.

 It's worth a try to do the reset via Ops Mode, if you knwo the active address of the decoder.Or take EVERY loco off the layout and program ops mode to address 0 - that's a broadcast and all compliant decoders need to respond to it. Yes, even though address 0 doesn't actually RUN anything with NCE. But it WILL program EVERY loco left on the mainline rails.

 Of course, if it's a very old decoder, it might not even have the reset option - that goes back a LONG time now, but there was a time when decoders didn;t have factory reset options built in.

                                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 4:42 AM

rrinker

 Shouldn't matter how you program it. Service Mode is just program track. Ops Mode is programming on the main. 

ahh, thanks, Randy, I didn't realize that. I thought that Service Mode was reserved to the manufacturer of the decoder who would use Service Mode to diagnose extraordinary decoder malfunctions.

Service Mode instruction packets have a short address in the range of 112 to 127. When the OP mentioned the address of 115 (although he did say that it was the long address), I began to wonder if he meant the short address, suggesting that the decoder was locked in Service Mode. 

In any event, this is a curious decoder problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SouthPenn on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 7:11 AM

I found a second way to reset decoders, NCEs anyway. This method claims to recover dead decoders too.

Didn't help my problem though.

Recover dead decoders.

South Penn
  • Member since
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  • From: Southern Quebec, Canada
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Posted by Guy Papillon on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 2:07 PM

Can you read CV7 (decoder version)?

OR

If, your loco is still open, does your decoder look like this one:

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 5:26 PM

 What is probably 'wrong' is that the decooder is locked.

You need to make CV15 = CV16. I'll bet CV15 accepts values - if locked, it's the only CV that will. CV16 is not supposed to be readable if they don;t match, but it's worth a try. It's not hard to brute force, there are only 255 possible values for CV15, one of them will match CV16 and unlock the decoder if it is locked.

 Yes, NCE did support decoder lock in certain firmware versions.

                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 5:43 PM

SouthPenn

I found out the decoder was installed by Tony's Train Exchange. I have contacted them for any help they can give me.

I have also contacted NCE.

 

What did NCE have to say about this?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SouthPenn on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 9:36 PM

I contacted both by e-mail. I haven't got any answers yet.

South Penn
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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, June 15, 2016 10:19 PM

SouthPenn

I contacted both by e-mail. I haven't got any answers yet.

 

Your best bet is to call NCE. They answer their phone, but not so good with email. In the past, when I have called with a problem, it has been worked out right over the phone.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SouthPenn on Sunday, June 26, 2016 4:10 PM

From the information I got back, both decoders are toast. 

New decoders are on order.

South Penn
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, June 26, 2016 6:23 PM

 Any results reading the decoder lock values?

                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, June 27, 2016 4:45 AM

SouthPenn

From the information I got back, both decoders are toast. 

New decoders are on order.

 

Make sure to send the decoders back to NCE. They can test them to see if they are toast. And, if so, they will send you new ones for a nominal cost.

Rich

Alton Junction

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