hornblower...It was requested that I provide an example of fewer keystrokes. "Dispatching" on an MRC Prodigy Advance throttle requires pressing and holding the DEL button until the loco number disappears from the display...
Sorry, but there is no MRC equivalent to dispatching.
SouthPennYou can add a longer cable to the cab. "For regular cabs the maximum length is 40 feet. When used with the Powercab this cable carries full track power so the maximum length is 8 feet. "
According to NCE, the maximum length for the Power Cab is eight feet, and it comes with a seven foot cable, so you can't add much!
SouthPennYou can add more throttle panels.
To use those with the Power Cab, you either have to add an additional throttle or get a Smart Booster.
You can add a longer cable to the cab.
"For regular cabs the maximum length is 40 feet. When used with the Powercab this cable carries full track power so the maximum length is 8 feet. "
You can add more throttle panels.
hornblower A quick note to the OP. Sorry if I pushed the thread a little off topic. What I originally tried to relate is that there seems to be a growing trend within experienced DCC users in favor of NCE DCC products over all other DCC systems. Thus, I would think going with an NCE system would be a pretty safe bet.
A quick note to the OP. Sorry if I pushed the thread a little off topic. What I originally tried to relate is that there seems to be a growing trend within experienced DCC users in favor of NCE DCC products over all other DCC systems. Thus, I would think going with an NCE system would be a pretty safe bet.
Thank you Hornblower that is the direction I am headed pending my upcoming trip to Trainland.
Joe Staten Island West
Hornblower
maxman Joe: You are starting to get baffled by differing opinions that will do nothing but confuse you. Any time someone asks here about using a DCC system toward which they are "leaning", there will suddenly be additional posts by proponents of whatever the opposing system is. You have your set of criteria concerning what you need the system to do, which if I understand correctly, is to be simple to operate, be able to run only a couple of locos, and allow you to maneuver from your chair. I would suggest that you pick the system that will satisfy these criteria.
Joe:
You are starting to get baffled by differing opinions that will do nothing but confuse you. Any time someone asks here about using a DCC system toward which they are "leaning", there will suddenly be additional posts by proponents of whatever the opposing system is.
You have your set of criteria concerning what you need the system to do, which if I understand correctly, is to be simple to operate, be able to run only a couple of locos, and allow you to maneuver from your chair. I would suggest that you pick the system that will satisfy these criteria.
You nailed it right.
Someone asked about the 7 foot NCE cord. Since the SIW is L shaped with 2 5 foot wings, if I mounted the face plate dead center it should work.
Given my druthers I would occasionally like to allow some of my non dcc logos to strut their stuff something NCE does not allow but digitrax does. Yes I am aware of the limitation.
But that's minor compared to my desire to have 4 digit addresslng and the ability to have my dcc locos creep along to to couple uncouple and spot cars on the 3 industries I serve.
You should never see issues like that because your sum total of locos is less than the system capacity. NCE and Digitrax do things differently, in Digitrax there are a fixed number of 'slots' that hold information about a loco in use. Once a loco is 'dispatched' or just properly stopped with the functions turned off, the same slot can be reused for a different loco. Total number of slots depends on the system, the Zephyr Xtra has 22, the DB-150 has 22, the DCS-100 has 120, and the new DCS-240 has 400 (for REALLY big clubs) - though we do not run into Slot Max issues with our 28x130 modular layout using the DCS-100.
I'm not sure what migth be happening in Hornblower's situation, if I take a throttle and do not dispatch the loco from it, then later pick up the same throttle and select a different loco, only the recently selected one will more, the old address may be active in the command station because it wasn;t dispatched but it's no longer tied to the old throttle if said throttle is now running a different loco. The only issue we ever have is when someone tries to run loco 567 and keys in 678 instead - in that case they will turn the throttle and 567 in front of them won't move, but if there's a 678 on the layout - it will move. No brand of DCC system can prevent that. Only the full feature throttles can actually link multiple locos to one throttle knob - 'MU' or 'consist' so you can drive multiple locos simultaneously, like prototype diesels. For models, you can do the same with steamers, but it's much more fun to run steamers protoypically, with one engineer per loco, and if they have sound you can even use whistle signals to coordinate movement.
It can be more complicated in a club situation, if two people have the same model, with the sme number. There needs to be a scheme so that every decoder has a unique address, or else one member has to eep their loco off the layout or on a power isolated secion of track while the other memeber runs their loco that has the same number. We use a first come/first served plus participation method - if you're there to help with setup, you can keep your 605 as 605, if someone shows up later ALSO with a 605, they will have to change their address to be able to run theirs.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This is starting to go over my head. The SIW will only run two Locos at a time.
However I have 2 steamers 5 diesels that are DCC equiped and 2 Diesels that are DCC ready and I would like to be able to change them out preferably with 4 digit addresses so that different locos and road names appear from time to time.
I also have 5 non dcc locos that I guess are destined to be shelf queens since they were donations (seems like I have become a magnet for trainset junk)that I have decided are not worth converting. Fortunetly except for changing some couplers from horn hook to knuckle they will work fine as static displays ( I think I just found a use for those plastic couplers I have lying around). but I digress.
Point is the DCC system is for home not club use and therefore I do not see these dispatching issues or am I wrong?
I readily admit that I am NOT a Digitrax expert as I only use this system when I'm operating on other people's layouts. I only meant to relate the comments made by several experienced Digitrax owners about starting over with another system. I added a few of my own experiences to help illustrate the other's frustrations.
As far as dispatching locos...
At a recent session, I was finally shown that the "proper" dispatching procedure (at least in that Digitrax owner's eyes) using a utility throttle was to dial the loco address to 0000, plug the throttle into a throttle bus port, then press and hold the dispatch button until the color of the LED on the throttle changed (I can't remember if its red to green or green to red). I still don't know the "correct" dispatch procedure using a full-function throttle. Most of the members of the groups I operate with insist on dispatching locos as there is almost always someone screaming, "Somebody's got my train!" at least once a session. Several times, the throttle that was still making contact with the previous loco had already been used to acquire another loco and was running another train with that new loco. Whenever the new loco was moved, the old loco would move, too.
It was requested that I provide an example of fewer keystrokes. "Dispatching" on an MRC Prodigy Advance throttle requires pressing and holding the DEL button until the loco number disappears from the display (another loco number in the recall stack appears). The process is the same whether you are using a tethered or wireless throttle and there is no need to plug in the wireless throttle. If you try to acquire a loco (press LOCO, enter the loco number, then press ENTER) that is already under the control of another MRC throttle, the loco number will blink to warn you that another throttle still has this loco. If you really do want to take control of this loco, simply reacquire the loco. The loco number stops blinking and your throttle is now in control. There is no need to yell at the previous operator to dispatch his train.
I've been using Digitrax for over 13 years now, and never had an issue with any of this. I have thus far always used my original Zephyr as a command station (12 slots - and I have alot more than 12 locos with decoders) and only time I ever had a FULL (Zephyr equivalent of the DT40x Slot=Max message) was when I was experimenting to see if it had 10 or 12 slots by seeing how many locos I could keep selecting. I see about a thread a week on the Digitrax Yahoo group about disptaching and full errors, and I just wonder if anyone has ever bothered to read the instruction manual. You get half a dozen different options to prevent the error, and some are just plain wrong. I've never done anything other than exactly what it says in the instructions. Thsi is not rocket science, the information IS in the instructions and not hidden in some footnote or back of the book reference. Digitrax is not "trash" as some say, it works as good as any system and better than most. Basic operating procedure is exactly the same as any other system excpet perhaps the Bachmann EZ-Command with its 10 buttons to select a loco or the older MRC systems which worked in a similar fashion. There's only ever been one component over the entire history of Digitrax that is from an older system and is no longer usable in a modern system, that being the LA-1 Loconet Adapter from the old Big Boy system which had long been discontinued even by the time I bought my Zephyr 13 odd years ago. Outside of that, anything Digitrax has ever produced is still usable in a present day system, there is zero waste on upgradability. The interconnect bus is superior to all but maybe some of the newer Euro systems that use Ethernet, but even those don't use the Ethernet as the link between throttles and the command station, or command station and other boosters, there's a seperate connection for that. Only Digitrax has one bus that connects everything.
CSX Robert <snip> hornblower ...It took me several ops sessions to learn the (correct?) way to dispatch a loco using Digitrax throttles because several different people taught me several different procedures. I'm still not really sure I've got it right... Actually, probably 99% of Digitrax users will never need to dispatch a loco (unfortunately, this is something that even many Digitrax "experts" don't understand). Dispatching a loco puts it into a special state that very few people use, especially currently (the dispatched state allows the loco to be acquired on a throttle that can only select "2-digit" addresses, or even a throttle that has no address selection capability - since all currently produced throttles are "4-digit", very few people need the dispatch capability). What you do need to do is release the loco, but you do not need to do anything special to do that - if you stop a loco and select another one, the previous one will be released.
<snip>
hornblower ...It took me several ops sessions to learn the (correct?) way to dispatch a loco using Digitrax throttles because several different people taught me several different procedures. I'm still not really sure I've got it right...
Actually, probably 99% of Digitrax users will never need to dispatch a loco (unfortunately, this is something that even many Digitrax "experts" don't understand). Dispatching a loco puts it into a special state that very few people use, especially currently (the dispatched state allows the loco to be acquired on a throttle that can only select "2-digit" addresses, or even a throttle that has no address selection capability - since all currently produced throttles are "4-digit", very few people need the dispatch capability). What you do need to do is release the loco, but you do not need to do anything special to do that - if you stop a loco and select another one, the previous one will be released.
Absolutely correct, but it's not like it's a big deal to dispatch a loco anyway.
On a DTxxx throttle, push "Loco" and then push "Disp". Done!
On a UTxx throttle, set the address to 0000. Done!
Something tells me hornblower's experts, aren't really.
joe323...I am still leaning toward the NCE system in part because of the form factor. I need to be able to roll around on a chair setting ground throws (for now at least maybe tortosies down the road) and not have to keep rolling back to the base station to operate the throttle. The Zephyr does not seem to allow for this. The NCE and MRC do allow for this. I am ok with a tether...
You are correct in that the Zephyr alone is not designed for portable operation, but you can use any of the Digitrax tethered or wireless throttles with it.
How long is your layout? One thing to keep in mind is the Power Cab has to remain plugged in(you can't unplug it and move it to another location while trains are running) unless you get a Smart Booster, and the cable is only seven feet long. Some people have used a longer cable with it, but I don't think that is a good idea because every foot of cable on the Power Cab is like adding two feet of relatively small gauge wire to the track bus(because track power flows through the Power Cab - from the panel to the cab and back again).
Personally, overall I prefer Digitrax over NCE, but in a situation like you are describing, as long as I could comfortably reach the whole layout with the Power Cab it would be hard to pass up, especially if you are on a tight budget.
hornblower...For every button push my MRC throttles require to select a loco, function, or other feature, the Digitrax throttles often require several additional button pushes to do the same thing...
Really? Do you have any examples? I know that with selecting a loco, programming a loco, controlling a lcoo's functions, or controlling accessory decoders, it's basically the same on either system.
hornblower...It took me several ops sessions to learn the (correct?) way to dispatch a loco using Digitrax throttles because several different people taught me several different procedures. I'm still not really sure I've got it right...
Thanks everyone
My wife has promised me a trip to Trainworld or Trainland over the summer and I am hoping to try out various systems there.
Since the SIW is a small switching layout anything over the basic systems would be overkill.
I am still leaning toward the NCE system in part because of the form factor. I need to be able to roll around on a chair setting ground throws (for now at least maybe tortosies down the road) and not have to keep rolling back to the base station to operate the throttle. The Zephyr does not seem to allow for this. The NCE and MRC do allow for this. I am ok with a tether.
Cuyama
I readily admit that I have never used the NCE system/throttles so I cannot comment on them. I was just relating what the other MRC user in group said.
hornblowerprobably go NCE "if not for the overly large throttle."
There are different sizes of NCE throttles, some smaller than Digitrax throttles.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
At a small gathering of operations-minded model railroaders I attended over the weekend, several people started sharing their gremlin stories regarding their Digitrax DCC systems. Most were complaining about erratic reliability issues including it works beautifully one day but strangely or not at all the next. They were also complaining about how the correct "FIX" for a particular problem is completely different depending on which Digitrax expert you query. Several shared stories about their systems malfunctioning with all attempts to repair/replace multiple components providing no results only to have the system light up again all on its own with the reason for the system malfunction remaining a total mystery. I have been at one or two ops sessions where the session had to be abandoned or postponed due to the Digitrax system going down.
Finally, someone posed the following question:
"If you were to totally start over, would you use a Digitrax DCC system to power your new layout?"
Almost all of the Digitrax users responded that, if they weren't already tied to Digitrax to operate "at the club," they would try a different system. Most said they would try NCE.
Being an MRC Prodigy Advance Wireless user, I mostly just listened to this conversation. I was a little surprised to hear the other MRC DCC user in the group also state he would probably go NCE "if not for the overly large throttle." I have operated on several different Digitrax powered layouts and can attest to my dislike of the Digitrax throttles, especially when compared to MRC throttles. For every button push my MRC throttles require to select a loco, function, or other feature, the Digitrax throttles often require several additional button pushes to do the same thing. It took me several ops sessions to learn the (correct?) way to dispatch a loco using Digitrax throttles because several different people taught me several different procedures. I'm still not really sure I've got it right. When I've gotten myself stuck using a Digitrax throttle, rather than try to explain what to do, a more experienced Digitrax user will usually just grab the throttle from me and furiously push buttons for a minute or two before shoving the throttle back at me. Nobody has ever gotten "stuck" using my MRC throttles and if someone asks "how do you do this?" I can easily show the user what to do, often with the response, "Really, is that all?" I have never had the opportunity to operate using an NCE system but I understand that it is supposed to have a few more bells and whistles than the MRC system. However, everyone who has operated on my layout seems to enjoy the user-friendly throttles and the system has never, ever, gone down.
You ask a LION? LIONS do not use DCC. But you say you want to run more trains? LION must ask you how many heads do you have? Me thinks you need a head for each train in order to run them correctly. LION has not been able to grow more heads, still, LIONS are remarkable animals who can run 10 trains at a time on the layout of him. Trains run by them selves. LION operates the tower.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
NCE Powercab. Less than $200.
I started with a Digitrax Super Chief system. After a few years I finally had enough of Digitrax and converted to an NCE Power Pro system. I should have either started with an NCE system or converted years ago. IMHO, NCE is far superior to anything Digitrax.
I am now testing a RailPro system. I'm not going to change to RailPro but instead run it along with the NCE system. The RailPro system does not use the track to send signals to the engines. It connects via radio directly to the engines. Easy to set up, easy to use, and no CVs to fool with. My main use of RailPro is for consisting. It is, IMHO, the best consisting controller on the market today.
NCE Power Cab. I have had one for some years.
Started with the MRC 2K some years ago. It did not do as much as the EZ but five throttles was fun and could run one DC loco.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I use the CVP "Easy DCC" system with wireless cabs, and I've never regretted it. I love the long slender throttles... very easy to hold.Chuck Hitchcock uses them down in KC and after running on his very busy railroad with 8 operators constantly going, I was sold.
I strongly dislike the shape of the NCE handheld.So now you have another opinion.Also, for a modest sized railroad I've operated on a LOT of Digitrax equipped layouts and most of them work quite well.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
At this point layout expansion will not happen as I have run out of my allotment of phoney estate and the the wife will allow no more. However I did leave the door open at both ends should that change in the future so expandability will be a consideration.
Might I also suggest the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra. It's closest in design to the Bachmann unit, and is fully expandable with no price penalties. The Zephyr Xtra has all of the capabilities of Digitrax's most expensive system, except that it is limited to 20 simultaneous locos instead of 120, and it is 3 amps not 5. Given that the Bachmann is 1 amp, that's still 3x the power. You can add any Loconet throttle and/or use JMRI. When I say no proce penalty - if you add a DT402 throttle to the Zephyr Xtra, you now have all the features of the Super Chief Xtra, at 3 amps insted of 5, for a significantly lower cost. And the proce difference between a Digitrax radio throttle and a plug in one is about $40, and the price they charge to upgrade a non-radio throttle to radio is - $40. So if you don;t go radio now and later decide to switch, there's no price penalty for not buying the radio system up front.
Make sure you get a round of opinions from other forums, not just one. All forums lean heavily on certain brands and sometimes w/o considering there are other choices besides the ones they made, good or bad.
If you can I would suggest to try the different brands out at a hobby shop, club or a show, see what fits your hand best and how you like the throttle and type. They all pretty much do the same thing, you need to spec one that meets your power requirements and comfort.
I have Digitrax but use NCE at a club in another city, either works fine for me, there is nothing that would make me say "I wish I had changed sooner".
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
SIW = Staten Island West The fictional Railroad I run I live on Staten Island The Forgotten Borough of New York City. Since there is only one train that runs here plus some minor freight service I decided to create my own RR. Seems like the only RR The Metropolitan Transit Authority does not have its sticky hands in.
The bus is 14 Gauge I think Stranded wire I Only have 3 feeders one in the middle and one each end of the layout The bus runs to a Teminal strip in the center and then branches out to 3 14 gauge (same spool of wire it came from) wires soldered to 22 Gauge feeders then soldered to the track.
I'm assuming you mean from the rear of the PCP panel? If so, yes - it will accept bare wire. I'm not sure how large a gauge though. I'm thinking up to 14ga??? 18ga for sure.
Is your power bus for your track solid copper bare wire? For flexibility, it may make sense to solder feeder wires to your power bus then attach those to the connector on the back of the PCP panel. And the connector is removeable from the onboard receptacle to make it easier to tighten the set screws onto the wires.
BTW, Joe...What is SIW?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage Joe, Here's what comes with a Power Cab: Power (PCP) panel PowerCab (RJ-12) 6-connector cable (7') Extra throttle cable (coily cord) Power Supply (13.5VDC) Users manual PowerCab throttle The PCP Panel (1) is the interface between your Power Cab throttle and your track: All you need to do is to connect the two wires of your track bus to the rear of the PCP panel (upper left connection) and plug in the Power Cab's power supply (upper right connection) to the PCP: The Power Cab must be plugged into the LEFT connector port of the PCP to operate your layout. If you inadvertantely plug it into the RIGHT connector port, your Power Cab will light up but nothing will run. The right connector port is for an extra throttle. Also, the flat 7' 6-connector cable is for the Power Cab and the coily coil is for an extra throttle. The 4-connector coily cord will not work with a stand-alone Power Cab setup because it's missing the extra 2 wires needed to power the Power Cab. If you use the Power Cab with the Smart Booster (SB5) or the PH Pro system, the booster/command station of the Power Cab is bypassed and it automatically reverts to a ProCab throttle. In this latter configuration the coily coil can be used with the Power Cab because it's being used as an extra throttle. Hope that helps, Joe... Tom
Joe,
Here's what comes with a Power Cab:
The PCP Panel (1) is the interface between your Power Cab throttle and your track:
All you need to do is to connect the two wires of your track bus to the rear of the PCP panel (upper left connection) and plug in the Power Cab's power supply (upper right connection) to the PCP:
The Power Cab must be plugged into the LEFT connector port of the PCP to operate your layout. If you inadvertantely plug it into the RIGHT connector port, your Power Cab will light up but nothing will run. The right connector port is for an extra throttle.
Also, the flat 7' 6-connector cable is for the Power Cab and the coily coil is for an extra throttle. The 4-connector coily cord will not work with a stand-alone Power Cab setup because it's missing the extra 2 wires needed to power the Power Cab. If you use the Power Cab with the Smart Booster (SB5) or the PH Pro system, the booster/command station of the Power Cab is bypassed and it automatically reverts to a ProCab throttle. In this latter configuration the coily coil can be used with the Power Cab because it's being used as an extra throttle.
Hope that helps, Joe...
Thanks Tom Seems Simple Enough I Guess I will Need to Find a Place to mount the PCP. Will the connector on the PCP accept bare wires?