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DCC Programming Help - Still Learning

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  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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DCC Programming Help - Still Learning
Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:26 PM

OK guys I think I have finally figured out why I had so much trouble programming my decoders.
 
I’ve been piddling around learning the JMRI Decoder Pro Software for the last three weeks and slowly but surely I’m getting it.
 
When I use the MRC Prodigy Controller and the MRC CV values in the MRC Manual the decoder doesn’t respond the same as when I program the decoder using the JMRI software.  For instance CV5 in the MRC manual says 0-63 Default 63.  The max voltage on the motor using the MRC value of 63 is 8.6 volts with the throttle at 28.  When I set CV5 using JMRI to max the voltage on the motor is 12.8 volts with the throttle at 28.
 
Slight difference.
 
I now have all my DCC locomotives working great thanks to Forum help and JMRI.  My heavy locomotives will pull the paint off the walls with ease.
 
The JMRI software has a pretty good learning curve or maybe it’s just an old dog having a tough time learning new tricks.
 
Thanks everyone!
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:04 PM

Just to refresh my memory, were the decoders you were trying to program MRC, or something else?

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:39 PM

I had problems with several decoders, MRC 1516, Digitrax DH123 and TCS 101 but the ones that got me down was the two brand new MRC 1730s.  All of them but one Digitrax DH 123 and one MRC 1651 were gutless.  I hadn’t done any programming to the working DH 123 and the MRC 1651 other than changing the address, all the CVs were factory default on those two.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 11:50 PM

While I'm happy that everything worked out for you, it is still not clear how your problem was solved.

When you opened JMRI and found the MRC decoder that you were looking for, all JMRI did during the programming process was to load your decoder with the default values someone had put into JMRI.  And those default values should have been the same values as found in the decoder instructions.  So that 63 you put into CV 5 manually is the same 63 that JMRI would put there.

If you open JMRI and look at the programming for your loco, go to the CV tab and see what the value is for CV 5.  Assuming you picked the correct decoder from the list, the value should be 63.

I was not able to find the instructions for the 1730 decoder on the MRC website so I don't know if 63 is the correct value.  I have no reason to doubt that you didn't mix up the instructions, but I did see that some MRC decoders have a value of 32 instead of 63.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, March 24, 2016 1:19 AM

I checked the value of CV5 with JMRI and it is 63.  The 1730 decoder is a 1716 with out the speaker.  I did not check CV5 with JRMI before when they were programmed from the Prodigy Controller.
 
I tried using the MRC Controller to program the repaired decoder and it was gutless.  I used JMRI and it worked perfect.
 
This evening while I was programming a 1730 (the one that was returned from MRC repaired) and function 4 will not work correctly.  I want to set it for MARS and it shows the correct number 8 in the JMRI but it is in on/off which is 0. ????  Everything else in the returned decoder works except function 4.
 
I’m not going to send it back to MRC again, I’ll swap it out with a E7B that doesn’t need lights.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Thursday, March 24, 2016 11:11 PM

I’m still learning about my programming.  As posted earlier in this topic I had problems programming the repaired decoder.  I now have the repaired decoder working correctly, all functions are working.
 
The MRC Controller doesn’t program all the CVs in the decoder and the JMRI also misses some of the CVs if I try programming on the “Main Track”.  The JMRI works first time every time if I’m using the Program Track.  The MRC Controller doesn’t care, if it works on the Program Track is will work on Main.  It just skips some CVs.
 
So I guess it’s JMRI from now on to prevent me from losing all my hair.
 
Part of my problems is the learning curve of the JMRI software, the remaining problems are built into the MRC Controller.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, March 25, 2016 6:58 AM

 This really does not make any sense, really. If you program CV5 to 63 with the handheld, or program CV5 to 63 with JMRI, it's still 63. It's not a 'different' 63, so there is no reason for differing behavior of the decoder. All JMRI does anyway is act as a throttle and send out the CVs as if you were keying them in on the handheld. While MRC likes to do things their own way, it's usually common for the speed control CVs, 2, 5 and 6 to use values from 0-255, not 0-63. So I'm surious, if you program it in JMRI and it runs as expected, what do you get back if you read it from the handheld? And if you set ot in the handheld, where the loco is then gutless, what does JMRI read for a value? It could be that the MRC manual is in error, but the decoder definition in JMRI is correct and allows the true maximum value.

 Also it is typical that a 0 in any of the speed control CVs means a standard default, which in the case of CV5 would mean allow maximum voltage. So if you want to get the max out of the decoder, you could simply set these CVs all to 0.

                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by maxman on Friday, March 25, 2016 7:12 AM

rrinker
Also it is typical that a 0 in any of the speed control CVs means a standard default, which in the case of CV5 would mean allow maximum voltage. So if you want to get the max out of the decoder, you could simply set these CVs all to 0.

If this information is correct, then it is contradictory to some of the answers given in the "what resistor to use across the motor leads" thread where it was stated to set these values to zero to prevent any voltage from getting to the motor.

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, March 25, 2016 8:25 AM

 Yes, you do not want to use 0 with most decoders. You'd want to set CV5 to 1 and that's all you really need to set, but you might want to set CV6 to 1 as well just in case - the default with CV6 = 0 is to make the mid point in th emiddle of CV2 and CV5, and if there is no middle point (there's no step .5!) the decoder may do weird things. You can do silly things like set CV2 = 0, CV5 = 100 and CV6 = 200, which is nonsensical, and the decoder MIGHT try to do it. So setting CV5 and 6 to 1 might be best for keeping the power down.

0, definitely not it. At least not fo most decoders - check the manuals, most all say 0 is the default value and is the equivalent of not setting the CV.

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, March 25, 2016 10:10 AM

Randy
 
I thought I had everything worked out but I still have problems.  The decoder performs very good now as far as the motor and light controls go.  Now my problem is sound control.  I am far from a Rivet Counter and I want to turn off the miscellaneous detail sounds.  Neither the Prodigy Controller or JMRI will adjust the sound levels of the Break/Air sounds in any of the 1730 decoders.  The master volume, Horn & Bell work as advertised.  Setting the CVs to 0 or 1 doesn’t have any effect.
 
After 10 hours dinking around with the Repaired decoder I have everything working but the unwanted sounds.  And after 10 hours I get punch drunk so I have no idea what made the MARS light function work correctly.  The JMRI would read back the correct programmed values but the decoder did not perform as programmed.
 
Here is a Mel Scanned MRC CV setting chart from the supplied manual.  The 1730 appears to be a 1716 purchased without the speaker.
 
  
 
 
 
Here is a Print Screen of the JMRI Sound Page after programming. (Read)
 
 
 
 
The first four levels above work and they worked first shot too.  The rest of the settings don’t respond, the sounds are at full volume.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, March 25, 2016 10:49 AM

 I would not lose too much sleep over an MRC decoder not following the supposed manual. Nor would I expec tmuch help from MRC - they couldn;t tell me what value of the horn select CV was what type of horn, they told me they "don't keep track of that". This is probbaly a 'feature' that the various volumes do not work for the aux sounds.

 The JMRI definitions can only go by what information is supplied by the vendor, so if the manual is wrong, JMRI will probbaly have it wrong as well.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, March 25, 2016 11:26 AM

rrinker

 I would not lose too much sleep over an MRC decoder not following the supposed manual. Nor would I expec tmuch help from MRC - they couldn;t tell me what value of the horn select CV was what type of horn, they told me they "don't keep track of that". This is probbaly a 'feature' that the various volumes do not work for the aux sounds.

 The JMRI definitions can only go by what information is supplied by the vendor, so if the manual is wrong, JMRI will probbaly have it wrong as well.

                      --Randy

 

 

I sent an e-mail to MRC Customer Service explaining my problem, I’ll let you know what happens.
 
 
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

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