Nope, but each manufacturer has a list of which of their decoders they recommend for specific locos on their respective web sites.
Most of the time it's a moot point in my case, even when plug in decoders are available I usually just remove the manufacturer's circuit board and wire the decoder in - too many times I have found weird issues with the factory boards, or there is more to do than simply plug in the decoder even though the socket is there for it. When I hook up the red and black decoder wires to the truck pickups, and the orange and grey decoder wires to the motor terminals, I KNOW I have the wires connected in the right place. ANd no extra things attached where they shouldn't be. It also allows me to standardize on one decoder for all my locos. Despite DCC being a standard so you can use any brand decoders with any brand system, standardizing on one brand of decoders is not a bad idea, you only need to learn any programming quirks for one kind of decoder. That doesn't have to be the same brand decoder as your DCC system - I use Digitrax but I don't have a single Digitrax decoder installed in any of my locos.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I usually just remove the manufacturer's circuit board and wire the decoder in - too many times I have found weird issues with the factory boards, or there is more to do than simply plug in the decoder even though the socket is there for it. When I hook up the red and black decoder wires to the truck pickups, and the orange and grey decoder wires to the motor terminals, I KNOW I have the wires connected in the right place. ANd no extra things attached where they shouldn't be. It also allows me to standardize on one decoder for all my locos. Despite DCC being a standard so you can use any brand decoders with any brand system, standardizing on one brand of decoders is not a bad idea, you only need to learn any programming quirks for one kind of decoder.
I usually just remove the manufacturer's circuit board and wire the decoder in - too many times I have found weird issues with the factory boards, or there is more to do than simply plug in the decoder even though the socket is there for it. When I hook up the red and black decoder wires to the truck pickups, and the orange and grey decoder wires to the motor terminals, I KNOW I have the wires connected in the right place. ANd no extra things attached where they shouldn't be. It also allows me to standardize on one decoder for all my locos. Despite DCC being a standard so you can use any brand decoders with any brand system, standardizing on one brand of decoders is not a bad idea, you only need to learn any programming quirks for one kind of decoder.
Why is standardizing with one brand of decoder important?
When you hard wire a decoder after removing the manufacturer's circuit board, how many wires are you dealing with? Two pairs of pickup wires (front and rear, left and right rail) connected to the red and black decoder wires, two motor wires connected to the gray and orange decoder wires, plus the wires from the lights connected to the blue, white, and yellow decoder wires, plus, maybe, the purple and green decoder wires. Seems like a lot of wiring compared to just using the plug in feature on the manufacturer's circuit board.
Rich
Alton Junction
There are a number of different ways decoders can be connected. Some hardwire, some 6 pin, some 8 pin, some 9 pin, some 21 pin.
Most decoders are one amp limit which includes lights. The OP has to do a stall current test on his locos and look at the different decoder websites. It will not be plug and play from what I see for his locos. Looks like hardwire.
Just too many variations for any kind or reasonable list.
Then, there is sound.
Look at the below link.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/163067/1796249.aspx
Are the OP's locos this old?
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
ndbprrHow about out of business manufacturers? I have 28 rivarossi GG1s.
I was on Amtrak, heading to NYC 20 years ago and there was a rail yard in NJ full of GG1's.
I googled DCC Rivarossi GG1 and the Internet wisdom is they either run well or they run poorly. ?? Which ones do you have? Are you looking for sound?
Bachman has Tsunami's in theirs' but nothing I've read here would convince me I want a Tsunami. ESU and QSI apparently also have a sound file for the GG1. I am about to do my first DCC conversion, so I am of no real help here.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
At one time, Digitrax had 2 and 3 amp non sound decoders. Check them.
Do a locked motor current test at 12 vdc, first.
Isolate the motor leads from the frame.
Are yours in the below link?
http://hoseeker.net/ahminstructions.html
They'll list old and new production locos - this is the DECODER manufacturers with the lists, not the loco makers. Some, like TCS, even have pictures of the installs.
richhotrain rrinker I usually just remove the manufacturer's circuit board and wire the decoder in - too many times I have found weird issues with the factory boards, or there is more to do than simply plug in the decoder even though the socket is there for it. When I hook up the red and black decoder wires to the truck pickups, and the orange and grey decoder wires to the motor terminals, I KNOW I have the wires connected in the right place. ANd no extra things attached where they shouldn't be. It also allows me to standardize on one decoder for all my locos. Despite DCC being a standard so you can use any brand decoders with any brand system, standardizing on one brand of decoders is not a bad idea, you only need to learn any programming quirks for one kind of decoder. Randy, I always find this to be an interesting decoder installation strategy - - removing the manufacturer's circuit board and hard wiring the decoder. Why is standardizing with one brand of decoder important? When you hard wire a decoder after removing the manufacturer's circuit board, how many wires are you dealing with? Two pairs of pickup wires (front and rear, left and right rail) connected to the red and black decoder wires, two motor wires connected to the gray and orange decoder wires, plus the wires from the lights connected to the blue, white, and yellow decoder wires, plus, maybe, the purple and green decoder wires. Seems like a lot of wiring compared to just using the plug in feature on the manufacturer's circuit board. Rich
Randy, I always find this to be an interesting decoder installation strategy - - removing the manufacturer's circuit board and hard wiring the decoder.
7 wires tops, my prototype and era have no use for rooftop beacons of ditch lights. Front and rear lights, that's it. And not even any special dimming - technically I'm on the fence as to what year I model to even have the headlights on during daylight hours.
I always repalce incandescent bulbs with LEDs, so any diode or resistor dropping arrangement on the factory board is likely of no use. I've had some real HUH?! moments with some factory boards, particualrly some P2K locos, tracing the board on the ones where you have to cut traces for DCC use, it's like half the stuff on there isn't used. Killing the factory board leaves more room for a speaker and enclosure when installing sound. Not that I have many Bachmann locos - just 1 actually, but their boards have those annoying capacitors and chokes. Sure I can just cut the caps off, but in a small loco like the 44 tonner, the more room the better, since I want to put sound in mine, just motor decoder for now. Locos like the P2k S1 need to be reqired anyway because of the motor being grounded to the frame, so why bother with the factory 'board'? I did my very first one way back by using a "drop in" decoder but there really isn't room for one that works with the stock light bulbs - I had to grind a bunch off the weight to make it work. Then you have ones with dodgy pickup wiring - like the Athearn RS-3. Even after I soldered wires on to bypass the bolster contact for one side of the pickup it STILL ran poorly, so I just swapped the chassis with another one, though I do think I know how to fix it for good now. But since I was soldering on wires to bypass one of the lines feeding the factory board - why keep the factory board? I'll fix the first one at some point - can never have too many RS-3's, I have about 8.
The decoders are still removable - I usually use ones with 9 pin JST plugs, so I can pull out the decoder and swap them, or even rig a dummy plug to make it back to a DC loco.
The nice thing about using all the same decoder is, I really have no use for JMRI for programming my own locos. My non-sound locos are all TCS decoders. Mostly T1's hard wired in, a couple of Atlas board style ones, and an MC2 in the 44 tonner and a P2K S1. All I ever need to program in them is an address and straight front and rear lights. Since they're all the same, after a few I have the CVs memorized for the lights. I can have them programmed with my throttle in the time it takes JMRI to load. Plus I can keep a couple of spare decoders on hand, though I've never blown one. Whatever loco I decode to complete next, I already have the decoder because I'm not using a board replacement, a 9 pin, or an 8 pin one - oops, don;t have that specific decoder, got to run out to the LHS and overpay, or order one and wait. I just grab one out of the drawer and go. ANd if I remember, I reorder what I used so I don't run out :D. Same reason I use only Loksound for sound any more. I don;t need to worry about having enough EMD 567's and Alco 244's. I just have a decoder, and load whatever sound file I need for the project at hand. Since I have a Lokprogrammer I can just buy the decoders anywhere and not worry about it being a dealer who will load the sound files for me.
Thanks, Randy, great all around explanation of your decoder installation strategy. That is exactly what I was looking for.
WHich I may blow and switch to Lokpilots. They used to be a lot more expensive than TCS while TCS offered at least 90% of the drive performance, but I haven't purchased decoders in a while and the price of TCS is a little shocking now. Since I already have the Lokprogrammer so I can update the firmware and read/write the entire decoder in seconds, and the motor drive is identical to the Loksound, why not? I'm not going to swap out all the existing TCS decoders though. One of the things I have waiting is most of that fleet of RS3's, in addition to needing paint and lettering, they also need decoders. It's a bit expensive to put a sound decoder in all of them, so I'll probbaly do half sound and half no sound and run them together - the Reading sometimes ran 5 or more on a single train pulling ore trains up the Bethlehem Branch, so lots of power on the front would be right in character. SO using all ESU decoders makes a lot of sense, they should all run together without any tweaking - they're all Atlas/Kato.
rrinker One of the things I have waiting is most of that fleet of RS3's, in addition to needing paint and lettering, they also need decoders. It's a bit expensive to put a sound decoder in all of them, so I'll probbaly do half sound and half no sound and run them together.
One of the things I have waiting is most of that fleet of RS3's, in addition to needing paint and lettering, they also need decoders. It's a bit expensive to put a sound decoder in all of them, so I'll probbaly do half sound and half no sound and run them together.
I have just the opposite with some F units, I had an A with no sound and bought a Bowser sound chassis B unit.
Nice thing about all the locos being the same brand, I can put sound in a couple and non sound in the rest and as time goes by I can swap the non sound ones with sound for not a whole lot of trouble since I'll already know how to install the speakers.
Sorta derailed the original subject but i think the question was pretty well answered pointing to the decoder manufacturer pages and especially TCS. The TCS pictures are VERY helpful evn if you don't use their decoders.
I have two P2K consists (PA/PB) with a powered A unit and a dummy B unit. I would love to add sound to the B unit but I have not resolved how to bring power to the dummy B unit.
My HO F3 A/B set. Decoder and speaker plus motor in A unit. Motor and speaker in B unit. Six pin connector standing on end.
Runs very well with a F7 A/B that have a AT-1000 and speaker, plus motor in each unit.
ABBA set.
Rich,
Your B unit is powered, mine is not. Same approach?
If the B unit has pickups, run a four wire setup. Two for speaker, two for pickups.
Yes, I know the sounds from each unit will be the same but we don't have to count all the rivets.
My F3 A/B have the same sounds. The F7 A/B, two slightly different sounds.
The P2K dummy B units have no provision for pick ups.
That's why I like my Stewarts. The B unit dummy has power pickups, you just have to sodler wires to the trucks. I need to update that one, it still has an old Soundtraxx LC decoder in it (and this is REALLY why I don't like Tsunamis - the horns in the Tsunami are no better than this old LC series decoder. This was a Soundtraxx low end decoder, although low end price is relative - when their good ones cost $150, an $80 decoder was cheap - I only paid like $30 for this one, long after they were out of production) plus the biggest speaker I could fit.
Depending on the truck design of the P2K dummies, you might be able to use the kadee #5 spring trick to add wipers. The sad thing about not having spare parts is you can't try swapping the trucks for ones off a powered unit with no gears (which is what the Stewart F7 B unit came with). Since they are Athearn clone drives - wonder if a set of Athearn F unit power trucks (again, leaving out the gears) would fit - this would give a power pickup path. Alternately, forget power pickup, put a sound decoder in the A unit, but put the speaker, a BIG speaker, in the B unit. Just 2 wires between the two, no worries about power pickup. 16 wheel pickup though, across both units, should be pretty much unstoppable. Even a #10 dead frog wouldn't stall such a beast.
rrinker That's why I like my Stewarts. The B unit dummy has power pickups, you just have to solder wires to the trucks. Depending on the truck design of the P2K dummies, you might be able to use the kadee #5 spring trick to add wipers. Alternately, forget power pickup, put a sound decoder in the A unit, but put the speaker, a BIG speaker, in the B unit. Just 2 wires between the two, no worries about power pickup.
That's why I like my Stewarts. The B unit dummy has power pickups, you just have to solder wires to the trucks.
Depending on the truck design of the P2K dummies, you might be able to use the kadee #5 spring trick to add wipers.
Alternately, forget power pickup, put a sound decoder in the A unit, but put the speaker, a BIG speaker, in the B unit. Just 2 wires between the two, no worries about power pickup.
In looking at the wiring setup in the photo provided by richg1998 a few replies back, a 2-wire connector would be ideal, sort of like the harness connection between a steam engine and tender.
I need to figure out the engineering to cleanly accomplish that wiring connection between the two units. Ideally, it would be such that you could easily disconnect such a harness for maintenance purposes. Any ideas in that regard?
I don't know about the P2K F units, but with the Stewart/Bowser ones, Kadee has a close coupling kit that lets the A and B couple almost prototypically close. Of course your curves have to be big enough to support it. That means the diaphragms almost touch. So if you'd run fine wire with a small 2 pin micro connector between the doors, it would be nearly hidden where it passes between the units. That would work with my F7's and F3's. My FTs are drawbar coupled so it doesn;t really matter - the connector can be inside the shell with just the wires passing through, so that it can be disconnected if necessary but it wouldn;t need to be in any normal handling.
A really nifty trick would be to somehow adapt those magnetic air lines to conduct power. One on each side of the coupler to simulate not brake lines but MU hoses, couple the locos together and the lines automatically attach. Could be a trick to get a flexible enough wire that is still lightweight enough to allow the little magnetic ends to attract and connect And there is the issue of conducting power through the magnets without demagnitzing them and causing the connection to come apart. Two conductive strips on either side of diaphragms that really do touch - but it would take pretty wide radius curves to keep one edge from sliding over the other and breaking contact. Hmm, small magnets there, to keep them aligned, plus the contacts. Automatic hook up, and no wires.
Number thirty wire would work but still delicate. Forty strand is more flexible and a little tougher than seven strand which most use.
Some use #28 wire.
You can use header pins and maybe hide under the end of a unit to unplug. The header pins are quite large in diameter.
Below is what I did with a cab forward I was playing with.
Yeah, that looks good.
I am looking at the Soundtraxx web site at Part No. 810012, a 2-pin micro connector kit. Waddya think?
http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/wiring.php
That could work. Mount one end permanently on one end of a unit underneath. My Bachmann steamers have a four pin and two pin connector under the cab out of sight and the six black #30 wires do look like hoses.
My F3 has one part of the six pin connector rigidly mounted in the B unit and both units are close coupled to hide tthe wires except on tight curves. The diaphrams do expand a little on curves.