My layout started as a DC layout and was later converted over to DCC. I had no major problems convertying the layout over and for a few years have had no electrical problems, the layout really has been hassle free.
I recently started another new hobby lately, rc electrical planes and that has been occupping the majority of my time lately. When the snow came I converted a few of my planes over to skis and floats so there was really only a minimum of down time.
So, my layout has been sitting idle for a couple of months, now that Spring is coming, so come the winds so my flying will become limited and I will be back to my railroad layout again.
When I was getting my layout ready for operations again I had just finished cleaning the tracks and I went to try a new locomotive and I now have a short. I have been checking the layout track piece by piece and am unable to find the source of the short.
My layout has five feeders providing power to the layout, however that is over one district. I think the next thing to do to find the short is to isolate the layout so that each feeder is a district and I will insulate both rails at the junctions of each district.
If I had only done that when I first convered the layout to DCC I would not be having this problem finding the short cuircuit that is currently plaquing my layout.
Remove all locomotives and rolling stock, see if the short still exists.
Your new locomotive might have a problem, it might not be the layout at all.....
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
That was the first thing I did. I will cut the layout into 4 or 5 districts tomorrow, insulate both tracks between the districts and check the districts one by one.
It sure is frustrating I have run a test car by hand over the entire trackage and can not find anything which could cause a short.
I have heard that it is possible with some of the wiring under the layout that two wires in close proximity could possibly cause a short.
don7I have heard that it is possible with some of the wiring under the layout that two wires in close proximity could possibly cause a short.
If you had some loose strands, yeah, that could happen, but seems unlikely to me.
A few more ideas...
Was there anything wiring or track related that you were doing just before the layoff that might have caused an issue you didn't notice then?
Yes, isolate things into discrete sections, then turn them off one by one until the problem goes away. My layout was originally a two-cab DC set-up. I wired for DCC conversion and just left everything in place other than wiring the DCC system through Bus A. So it's easy to start turning off blocks until you hit on the one with the issue.
My surmise is that you have a rail gap that's closed or been bridged in some way.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Grab a magnifying glass and look at your turnouts very closely. I have had a little spring show up in one and another time an 1/8 long piece of rail I had snipped months earlier that had flew into space only to return months later through a time space vortex and end up in the rails of the turnout causing a short.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
don7When I was getting my layout ready for operations again I had just finished cleaning the tracks and I went to try a new locomotive and I now have a short. I have been checking the layout track piece by piece and am unable to find the source of the short.
What do You mean by ''short'', breaker trips on power source? Or no responce from new loco and loco shorts? Or no power to loco? Do You have any other loco's to run? Can You disconnect Your feeders, one at a time, starting with the furthest and working Your way Back?
If You want to isolate into power districts, both rails insulated, power to terminal barrier strips, power from strip to SPDT toggle switches, to districts or if You prefer slide SPDT switches.
Just remember: Short and loss of power are two different animals.
Good Luck!
Frank
zstripeShort and loss of power are two different animals.
True. However, usually with loss of power, or an "open," you usually have power to other locos. If locos are sound equipped, then the affected loco stays off, but others continue making noise. With a short, the sound from other locos is affected.
Ultimately, this is also a good argument for circuit breakers, one per each isolated power district. That way a short will only affect that section, while the others keep chugging along. I mention circuit breakers because Don didn't note whether any are present or not.
zstripe don7 When I was getting my layout ready for operations again I had just finished cleaning the tracks and I went to try a new locomotive and I now have a short. I have been checking the layout track piece by piece and am unable to find the source of the short. What do You mean by ''short'', breaker trips on power source? Or no responce from new loco and loco shorts? Or no power to loco? Do You have any other loco's to run? Can You disconnect Your feeders, one at a time, starting with the furthest and working Your way Back? If You want to isolate into power districts, both rails insulated, power to terminal barrier strips, power from strip to SPDT toggle switches, to districts or if You prefer slide SPDT switches. Just remember: Short and loss of power are two different animals. Good Luck! Frank
don7 When I was getting my layout ready for operations again I had just finished cleaning the tracks and I went to try a new locomotive and I now have a short. I have been checking the layout track piece by piece and am unable to find the source of the short.
But, I have a question. Your entire layout has only five pairs of feeders? If that is so, just disconnect four pairs and see if the short persists. Keep on reattaching another pair of feeders until you find the short or eliminate it as a possibility.
Are any rails gapped? Any reversing sections? Or is the layout all one polarity. With a layout that small, why create power districts? It seems to me that you are unnecessarily complicating matters. This should be a no-brainer.
Rich
Alton Junction
As the previous posters indicated, there are lots of possibilities as to the cause. Twer me, I would first remove all locos and rolling stock from the layout. If the short (it is a short, I presume, and not a loss of power) remains, then scour every inch of the trackage for errant springs/screws, etc. that could be causing a problem. Especially look at the turnouts, as they are the "usual suspects".
If it still exists, look at your wiring. Perhaps it was jostled over the idle period and two wires suddenly touched each other, etc.
I don't know how bid a layout you have, but after you get the problem resolved, I would begin installing feeders every 4 feet or so. Even with a 4x8 layout, 5 sets of feeders is just not enough - unless its a simple loop of course.
Hey, let us know what happens!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Check the switches also.Especially where the rails form a V.
Jim
I should have been more specific I see.
Thanks to all for your advice and suggestions.
My layout has five feeder wires connected to it and the layout is one electrical district or zone.
As it is now, I disconnected the DCC and reconnected a DC transformer that confirmed the short. I have searched all the obvious places, all of the switches have been closely examined and I can find nothing out of place, I have run a couple of empty box cars over the layout and there is nothing touching the track. As it stands now with the DC transformer connected to one place on the layout I can not tell where on the layout the problem is.
If I reconnect the DCC and cut the two rails and install insulators forming five districts, each distric being centered on one of the five feeders powering the layout. once insulated I should be able to take one of me DCC locomotives and try it on each of the Districts. The District with the electical short being the problem area. Once the problem area is located I can then look more closely and if needed keep replacing the existing track with new replacement track.
When you create the five power districts, you will have to disconnect the feeders and reconnect them one set at a time. Just cutting the rails is not enough, the system will still show a short, reconnecting the feeders one set at a time will show which district has the problem if the problem is in the track. If the short shows up on the first set of feeders you connect, disconnect those feeders and hook up another set in a different district, if the short continues then the problem would appear to be in in the wiring, if the short disappears then the track in the first district is the problem.
Once you cut gaps to create District 1 you have isolated that district without needing to install insulated rail joiners. We just had a thread on 'filling the gaps' and you may well want to do that, but you don't necessarily have to create all 5 districts and then test, unless you have my luck, then the short is in District 5.
Do get back to us with what you find.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
WHat kind of turnouts do you have? If they are something like Peco Electrofrog, do you have the frog rails gapped? ANd if you do - have any of the gaps closed up? Those are the sort of things that will sneak up and get you andbe hard to track down.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Do you have a Kadee coupler gauge? If so, where is it? One of our members spent days looking for a short, only to discover that his Kadee gauge was on the track, and that it's all metal. It just looks like, well, like it belongs there.
I'd spend some time under the layout looking at the wiring. Is anything loose? Are there any bare spots that might be touching?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Another good one - I've done that myself a few times. The newest ones are plastic and will only be found when your loco smashes into it and derails, but mine are all the metal ones which are an instant short.
If I were a betting man I'd bet that the benchwork has shrunk under lessened humidity and somewhere in one of your switches two rails have touched.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Disconnect the buss wires at the pack. Get a good quality DMM, set it on Ohms. Measure the resistance across the rails and work your way around the layout.
The lowest value found should be close to the short.
Don,
Usual suspects are gaps closed up, or a bare spot on a wire is touching something it shouldn't be. Or, something placed on the tracks at the end of a spur... (Been there, done that...)
As a side question, what size layout they you have only five feeders? Are all joints soldered?
Is something metal laying across the rails?