So I'm just getting back into the hobby after a thirty + year gap and things have moved on since I was a boy.
1) I'm not really into 21st Century technology - I use my mobile for texting and making calls, and that is it. My wife can work the TV remote better than me. Facebook and Twitter are really not my thing. I built my PC - but don't ask me to do anything too technical with the programmes.
2) My current plan is for a small HO switching layout with just one or two engines running at a time - however I may be moving house in the next year or so and I'm hoping there will be room for me to expand. At which time there may be scope for more than one operator at a time.
I think I need something fairly intuitive to set up and use that can be scaled up should the need arise. I'd rather not break the bank if possible.
I've done a little reading online and there seems to be consensus that the Bachmann Dynamis system is a dog. But apart from that there seems to be little agreement. I live in the UK and the two main producers (other than Hornby) seem to be Lenz and MRC.
Can someone point me to a good comparitive review? MR doesn't seem to have published such a thing for a couple of years - and given how technology moves on...
Thanks
Malc
I use the NCE Power Cab for three sound locos. About two amps max.
The 5 amp Power Pro is at our local club. Some users "donwunder" use the NCE systems also.
Google NCE DCC. Manuals are online.
Better get use to it. We are in the Digital Age. I am 75 and know what it is like.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Links to read.
http://tonystrains.com/tonys-off-the-cuff-dcc-comparison/
http://www.dccconcepts.com/index_files/DCCbrandecisions.htm
I have never been interested in the bragging about how many locos can be controlled. The best I can do is run three locos at one time.
Any thoughts on other systems would only be opinions. The NCE has satisfied me.
I am sure if you search You Tube you will find experiences of others. “Experiences” of others is important but your mileage may vary.
Are there any train users/clubs in your area?
You can search for dcc systems reviews also but be careful of opinions from some about other systems. Try to stick with those who use a system.
I use Google for searching.
Good luck.
Be warned I have yet to fins one of those comparison that doesn;t have errors in it, often across the board - ie, it will be wrong for Manufacurer A under the Feature B row, and wrong for Manufacturerd E under the Feature F row, and so forth. So they aren;t biased charts - they just have mistakes. And many are old and outdated.
Also, what's commmon and popular in Europe and the UK is usually quite different than what's popular in the US. In the US, Uhlenbrock, CT, and ESU are generally rare, Lenz has a small following. Roco is also rare. Digitrax and NCE are the biggest - check the states on layouts in the magazines, and in the annuals like MRP and GMR. One or two others, mostly NCE and Digitrax. There's strong support for NCE in Australia, but I'm not sure about the UK. You can generally obtain most any system anywhere, the problem is getting support for one that isn't commonly used in your country.
Your best bet is to stop by a few shops and try them out and see which you like best. If you have multiple shops near you, that would be best - sometimes a shop may carry 3 or 4 brands but are partial to one and not always because it's best, but because they have the best margin on that one. So hitting up a few different places should help even out any prejudice towards a particular brand. If EVERYONE agrees - it may just be the best option.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
From my recent experience you're probably going to walk into living hell.
40+ years of this (not including the childhood Lionel years). I got into DCC 4 weeks ago and its been downhill since. But as they say, "to each his own".
I have a lot of computer experience, both hardware & software, particularly with CADD & video imaging systems. As a systems integrator, if any of my customers had to go through what I'm going through I guarantee you I wouldn't get paid.
Arto From my recent experience you're probably going to walk into living hell. 40+ years of this (not including the childhood Lionel years). I got into DCC 4 weeks ago and its been downhill since. But as they say, "to each his own". I have a lot of computer experience, both hardware & software, particularly with CADD & video imaging systems. As a systems integrator, if any of my customers had to go through what I'm going through I guarantee you I wouldn't get paid.
To the OP:
Don't let stuff like this scare you away from DCC.
As a counterpoint, I jumped into DCC 10+ years ago (Digitrax Super Chief) and never looked back. As a matter of fact, I can't think offhand of *any* issues I've ever had that weren't self-induced.
Yes, DCC has some "rules" and idiosyncrasies, but as long as you're aware of them and work within them, you'll be fine.
It's been almost exactly 12 years since I got my Digitrax Zephyr and have not ever had any issues operating it or any DCC locos that I can;t trace to me being an idiot. Even after years in storage, I pulled it all out, hooked it to my new layout, and away it went. I have yet to even fry a decoder.
I will suggest the NCE PowerCab. It is intuitive, full featured (some starter systems are not) and it can be expanded when you build a bigger layout.
I am all thumbs. My electronic skills are limited. I had the PowerCab up and running in a few minutes.
I looked at Digitrax but the throttle layouts didn't appeal to me. Too many similar buttons.
DCC does have a learning curve to it, but that really relates to when you get into more complex programming. For basic operation it is quite simple. Probably the hardest part when you are starting out is remembering what function button does what on different decoders, but for the most part the commands are all the same.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Malc:
I just read Arto's thread on all of the problems that he has had trying to get his DCC system to work (apparently it still isn't). He has every right to sound negative about DCC.
However, I think the thing to remember is that his horrible experiences are not the norm. The vast majority of new DCC users don't experience anything close to the huge issues like Arto has. There is some learning to do, but the systems usually work as expected.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
Hello All
Thanks for your replies - the NCE PowerCab it is then. I can get one here in the UK for 150 pounds ($213 US) so not too eye watering!
RR Baron:
Care to explain that?
In my humble opinion there is nothing worse on these forums than a blanket statement like that without a reasonable explanation. If you have a case, which clearly you think you do, please state it.
I can't speak to others, but NCE Powercab should work well even if you are not "techno-savvy".
I have JMRI hooked up, program decoders, etc. and found there is a learning curve to using these features even if you are comfortable with new tech. On the other hand my Dad also bought a Powercab and he just hooked it up and ran with it as-is. No decoder programming, no JMRI, etc. But the basic features of DCC- multi trains without blocks, sound control, acceleration etc. all work great right out of the box so he is happy.
Huntington Junction - Freelance based on the B&O and C&O in coal country before the merger... doing it my way. Now working on phase 3. - Walt
For photos and more: http://www.wkhobbies.com/model-railroad/
hon30critter RR Baron: Care to explain that? In my humble opinion there is nothing worse on these forums than a blanket statement like that without a reasonable explanation. If you have a case, which clearly you think you do, please state it. Dave
Dave,
Slowly reread what I wrote as it requires no additional explanation if you do not read anything into it.
In case it is too verbose for you, I’ll condense what I wrote.
First read the entire manual, do not assume you know how to use the NCE Power Cab.
RR Baron
Hello all,
I use the Bachmann Dynamis system and love it!
(Add snarky comments here.)
I have a 4x8 table top pike and the infrared wireless system fits my needs. I upgraded to the 5-Amp booster and added the Pro Box. I am a Lone Wolf modeler and don't need compatibility with other DCC systems.
Yes, people will tell you that it's not a "real" DCC system but I run Bachmann, TCS and Digitrax decoders in my locos and snowplow with multiple functions and MU'd 4-unit coal trains.
Before adding the Pro Box; for CV read function, I bought an MRC Decoder Dr. and made a separate programming track with two pieces of 9-inch sectional track with a re-railer in the middle on a piece of 1x4. This setup works well for decoder installations an programming.
Others will give you their recommendations on more "popular" DCC systems but as a Dynamis user I can say that it works for me.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Thanks for your response but why so cryptic and condescending? Your second response was no more helpful than your first post.
Dare I ask again, can you give some examples?
My personal experience with the NCE Powercab is that it was very simple to understand without having to initially read the whole manual. In several years of use I have experienced a couple of minor glitches but nothing serious. Yes, I have referred to the manual on a few occassions, but that was only required once I started to get into more advanced programming. Initially I had no problems.
Apparently you did have problems. I'm sure all of our fellow Powercab users would be interested if you would explain what problems you had.
I have to apologise. Obviously I upset you with my comment about not providing examples, and yes, it was a bit over the top. I was hoping to learn from your experience.
All the best!
rrinker Also, what's commmon and popular in Europe and the UK is usually quite different than what's popular in the US. In the US, Uhlenbrock, CT, and ESU are generally rare, Lenz has a small following. Roco is also rare. Digitrax and NCE are the biggest - check the states on layouts in the magazines, and in the annuals like MRP and GMR. One or two others, mostly NCE and Digitrax. There's strong support for NCE in Australia, but I'm not sure about the UK. --Randy
Also, what's commmon and popular in Europe and the UK is usually quite different than what's popular in the US. In the US, Uhlenbrock, CT, and ESU are generally rare, Lenz has a small following. Roco is also rare. Digitrax and NCE are the biggest - check the states on layouts in the magazines, and in the annuals like MRP and GMR. One or two others, mostly NCE and Digitrax. There's strong support for NCE in Australia, but I'm not sure about the UK. --Randy
I have never heard of Uhlenbrock, CT and didn't know ESU and Roco had DCC systems, although it stands to reason.
My wife is from the UK, K1 imigrated in 2011. We took a trip a Dec 2014 to visit and process her son for immigration at the US embassy in London but visited a train club in Sunderland near her home town up north and NCE seemed to be THE popular DCC system so yeah, it's pretty popular in the UK. I've seen a number of other UK modelers using NCE too which seems to support the notion that NCE is the perferred system there. Everyone had it at the club and they had mulitple layout there which included G scale.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Good man, you've never read those DCC comparison charts that are usually full of errors. Most mention Uhlenbrock, Roco, and ESU, even though they aren't all that easy to get in the US. CT is even harder to come by, but some people do use their decoders - they have some insnaely small ones.
Bachmann Dynamis is a stripped down version of ESU's stripped down entry system. The Euro DCC systems, outside of Lenz, are not very common in the US due to both lack of support and the fact that they generally are a lot more expensive - in part due to the prevelence of touch screens and graphic displays on the throttles and base stations. Calling up locos by number doesn't work too well when the number is 6-8 digits or the locos aren't even numbered. And some of the systems like Uhlenbrock Intellibox support like everything - that system can connect to Loconet, Lenz Expressnet, Roco, Marklin, and s88 bus AND has the computer interface built in. Little wonder it's not cheap.
If you have a good source for MRC products, you might consider one of the Prodigy Advance systems. I have been using an MRC Prodigy Advance DCC system on my layout for about 10+ years. This system is very easy to use. The basic instructions are even printed on the back of the walk-around throttles. The instruction manual is only about 20 pages long so it doesn't take a lot of time to learn all of the available features. The throttles have a very intuitive layout and the labels and easy-to-read display use English instead of icons or strange abbreviations. It is extremely easy to program decoders using this system. Setting up multiple loco consists is a breeze. Most of the original shortcomings of the MRC systems, mainly no computer interface and no JMRI support, have been corrected. However, I find programming with just the basic system to be so easy that I don't feel the need for a computer interface. Many people will tell you that the MRC systems are not upgradable or expandable but I don't know what they're talking about. I started with two tethered throttles and recently added two wireless throttles and a second booster. The receiver for the wireless throttles simply plugs into any available plug on your throttle bus and the booster uses simple cord connections into the original command station. You can add as many boosters as you need using daisy chain connections to the original command station. My original old command station will support up to 99 throttles limited only by the number of cab bus plugs available for tethered throttles or how many wireless throttles you can afford. I did have to send my older command station back to MRC for a firmware update when I purchased the much newer wireless throttles but that took little time and everything works as advertised. Another nice feature is the built-in fast clock. The clock time and time rate are easily set by the master throttle and all other throttles automatically match the master unit. Thus, everyone is holding a synchronized fast clock in their hands during an operating session. The components are well built, too. I had a couple of throttles hit the concrete floor from a height of 3 feet with no adverse affects. I've had several kids (5 to 12 years) run my layout and they just grab these throttles and go with almost no instruction.
I operate with a local round-robin group and some of the layouts are equipped with Digitrax systems while two use MRC systems. Both brand systems seem to do the job but the MRC systems seem to generate far fewer "how do you do this" types of questions from the "guest" operators.
MRC decoders have earned a poor reputation although I've had pretty good luck with the few decoders I have purchased.
I originally bought the Atlas DCC system but outgrew it so quickly that I don't think I'd recommend any of the really basic DCC systems to anyone. Even if you are a lone-wolf operator, the additional expense of purchasing a full-feature system will prove a wise investment down the road. Whatever system you buy, make sure you can still use all of the original components no matter how much you expand your system. Nothing is worse than having to abandon a component(s) or entire system because it is no longer compatible with the upgrade system.
Hornblower
I own digitrax because I find it more "bullet proof" BUT it's also a bit more techincal because of the button presses and the loco statck in the command station are sometimes archaic.
NCE's LCD menu driven system is super easy.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
OK Guys, which is the better option - given what has been said above:
NCE Powercab Starter Kit: https://www.wicknessmodels.co.uk/shop/controllers/product/269-nce-power-cab?gclid=CjwKEAiAxfu1BRDF2cfnoPyB9jESJADF-MdJO9P-DwxBgKMX8IB1jeNAV-B_atUqMiZ5Dxe7WyAtuRoCBgLw_wcB
NCE Powercab + Doodads: https://www.wicknessmodels.co.uk/shop/controllers/product/637-nce-power-cab-plus?gclid=CjwKEAiAxfu1BRDF2cfnoPyB9jESJADF-MdJn0vJcBXRhoZUBagTjZpECPLBBOvUnl4YfCLkwrUd5xoCJvbw_wcB
Malcolm you posted the same link twice. Doodads has a number of meanings on this side of the pond.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
If you scroll down past the description you can see what he meant to post as the decond ones. Based on comparing the two, his use of "doodads" corresponds exactly to the way I've always used the word in my part of the US.
Anyways, the extra one includes the computer interface and, more importantly, the autoswitch for the program track. This is one of the problems I have with some of the 'starter sets' that don't have dedicated program track outputs. It's supposed to be easier for the newbie, but what's easier, hooking up two extra wires to a seperate piece of track, or wondering while all your locos suddenly have the same address because you forgot to take them off the track when programming that one new one?
SO I would say spring for the extra stuff - the computer interface will allow you to use JMRI to program decoders, but the bigger addition that will make things easier is the DCC Autoswitch. When wired per the instructions it comes with, it will automatically cut power to the main layout when you attempt to program decoders, which will prevent you from accidently changing all your locos at once. This handy little device also works with other brand systems that don't have dedicate program track outputs.
BigDaddy Malcolm you posted the same link twice. Doodads has a number of meanings on this side of the pond.
Apologies - when I click on the links they go to two different pages in their webstore. I guess I'll need to look up "doodads" in Urban Dictionary!
Randy, thanks for the recommendation.
I have to echo "Hornblower's" remarks about MRC Advance. I have had mine since 2004 and it has been very trouble free. I had investigated several brands looking at internet groups and vendor sites before selecting it. I know there is some negative sentiment in the hobby regarding MRC likely from some of their underperforming decoders.
I use NCE decoders mainy because I got 4 included with my purchase of the MRC system and also TCS. I have had good experience with both. They always set up fine either on the programming track or making cv changes on the main. Address programming is a simple one step process: ie Select program, select program track press enter, at adr prompt,select address numbers you want for the loco, press enter, done. Consisting has been easy for me too.
I'm not big into sound, but I do have one Atlas sound equipt engine that I have no issues using with my MRC unit.
Control buss wiring if your layout is large enough to require it, has been easily accomplished by me with standard cat 5 cable and RJ45 jacks.
I guess anyone can have bad experiences with any brand system. My system worked from the first time setting it up and a few times I had troubles, a careful re-reading of the easily read instructions set me straight. Or, something really dumb as finding a metal can of screws across the tracks when it wouldn't work!
Happy user.
MalcyMalc,
I think you will be pleased with the NCE powercab. I am a fellow Brit but I live in the US now. I have my powercab for doing on track programming and test running locos.
Good luck with your DCC layout.
Chris.
Loco Guy - is a state of mind - not an affinity to locomotives.
Sit back and enjoy your track...