Hello All,
I've read several of your posts and what I think you are trying to achieve is having two separate locomotives on the same section of track or block, in DC terms, move independently.
When you energize a section of track with Direct Curent power all the motors on that section will respond. If you switch the polarity on one of the DC motors it will run in the opposite direction of the other motor relative to each other.
Think one motor will turn clockwise and the other motor will turn counter-clockwise, but all motors will move.
When you change the "direction" switch on your DC power pack it switches polarity to that track section or block. In the above scenario the two locomotives on the same block will either move towards each other or away from each other simultaneously.
You can achieve this same result by physically turning one locomotive so that it is "backwards", relative to the other locomotive, apply the power and watch them run either towards or away from each other as noted above.
When I ran DC blocks on my pike I had several blocks that were one 9-inch section of track long. I also had dual cab control; two power packs that could be switched independently through Atlas selectors and controllers.
This allowed me to have one locomotive moving independently in one direction in one block and another locomotive moving indepentendently, on another block, in the other direction. However, when one locomotive crossed-over into the other block both locomotives would move in the same direction.
The saying is, "in DC you control the track, in DCC you control the locomotives."
This is why DCC has been so popular. You can control the direction of all the locomotives on the same track independently. Which means you can intentionally or unintentionally run locomotives into each other.
What you are trying to achieve in DC requires two power packs wired to block selectors and controllers. Then you need to coordinate the two cabs (power packs) and block switches to move the locomotives in the desired directions.
The Complete Atlas Wiring Book helped me to understand these concepts and aided in block wiring on my DC layout.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
What you describe as pulling the train onto a siding and killing power on the siding; well that siding is a block. Break the layout up into isolated sections, each of which can be "turned off". That's block wiring.
Take it a step further and along with killing power, use a double pole switch and you can switch between throttles (power packs). Now you can run two trains at the same time by throwing the switch for each block as you progress around the layout.
cplmckenzie Hello, Oookay, I am thinking about wiring a couple of my locos opposite, so they will run against each other in the same block, on the same power unit. Will I damage anything in doing this? cplmckenzie
Hello,
Oookay, I am thinking about wiring a couple of my locos opposite, so they will run against each other in the same block, on the same power unit.
Will I damage anything in doing this?
cplmckenzie
YES. They will damage each other when they collide.
Do you mean you want to run two locomotives back to back as a pair? No need to rewire anything. It's the track that determines the direction, not the locomotives.
Two (2) Cab/throttle's, block control wiring, with DPDT toggles, both rails insulated. Easier to convert to DCC in the future should You so desire and can run two locos in any direction You want without changing wiring in them....click on link for schematic:
http://www.nottawasagamodelrailway.com/images/fullsize/DC-System-Schematic.png
Stay away from common rail wiring....not as versatile as two rail insulated wiring.
You really need to do some more reading....hopefully! Really not that hard once You learn the basic's.
Make sure You color code the wiring...makes everything much easier...look at different colors in schematic, to get an idea.
Take Care!
Frank
Yeah, I have been reading bits and pieces on block wiring, cab a\cab b trying to grasp the concept.
Even been going through the digital archives here at MR, back to the 70's looking at all articles on wiring, components. I just ordered the book Wiring Your Layout (Mallery), should be here on Friday.
I think I will take the advice given and wait and read the book, keep going through the archives and watching the videos.
Thank to all,
You will still need to do block wiring, regardless of how the locomotive is wired, for the type of operation you described. (In DC operation mode anyways...)
DC block wiring, done correctly, will negate the need to reverse the wiring inside the locomotive.
(So would DCC, that would also negate the block wiring need. But, then there is the expense of DCC system, decoders, etc.....)
Really, no need to reverse wire the locomotive here.... Just need correct block wiring. (Or DCC. Your choice.) Changing the locomotive wiring around would only waste time and energy. (And, if not done correctly, money.)
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Please don't take this as criticism, but if you want to have locomotives running opposite each other either go with DCC or split your railroad up into blocks. My opinion is that all this talk of re-wiring locos to avoid doing something the right way is a half-patoot way of doing something.
But my opinion is not worth much so you can do as you wish.
cplmckenzie Well, it is dc. I have two connected 8x4 ft layouts. Multiple switches and reverse loops to navigate the entire connected layout. I also have 7 or 8 sidings (isolated) to park trains until their time to run. Also in each 8x4 there is a siding which cuts off the main (the sidings have their own power unit) and comes back onto the main. I am looking to put in signaling to indicate when a train is within a certain proximity to an occupied block. If it is approach green, the train needs to get off the main onto the siding and stop until the oncoming train passes. When light is green, safe to move back onto main. cplmckenzie
Well, it is dc. I have two connected 8x4 ft layouts. Multiple switches and reverse loops to navigate the entire connected layout.
I also have 7 or 8 sidings (isolated) to park trains until their time to run. Also in each 8x4 there is a siding which cuts off the main (the sidings have their own power unit) and comes back onto the main.
I am looking to put in signaling to indicate when a train is within a certain proximity to an occupied block. If it is approach green, the train needs to get off the main onto the siding and stop until the oncoming train passes. When light is green, safe to move back onto main.
Based on what you're describing, you should just divide your layout into blocks and go with block wiring. Even if you wire your locos different from each other, you'll still need to isolate one loco from the other when they are in the same section of track or they will both start to move. That is essentially block wiring. So if you just do block wiring from the begining, you won't have to change any wiring in the locos.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Guess I do not understand what he really wants to do. I was thinking at first he wants to run them in a consist.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
cplmckenzieI am thinking about wiring a couple of my locos opposite, so they will run against each other in the same block, on the same power unit. Will I damage anything in doing this?
If they run in oposite directions, and you have them push each other, you COULD polish rails or wheels away. But you would have to work at it.
Dave
If they match now in the same direction, no problem.
Make sure to reverse the power pack so they both run backwards at the same rate. Sometimes a gear train will not run as good in one direction. A fellow at our club many years ago ran a couple diesels back to back by switching the wiring.
RichRich