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DCC signal problem----need your help

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DCC signal problem----need your help
Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Thursday, November 12, 2015 2:11 PM

I run my HO trains  Using Kato track. I have no problems with the signal on the main line but in my yards when starting them up the signal is non-exsistant. Once I move the loco to the main line it acts as it should.

The switches going into the yard are number 4 and they are power routing. Is there a way to fix this so the signal goes all the way into the yard Besides powering all the yard tracks? 

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Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, November 12, 2015 4:38 PM

To repeat what David said.........   DCC is finicky and needs constant and steady signals fed to it to work properly.  What this often comes down to is having power feeders attached every 4 feet (some say 3, some say 5 or 6), plus all sidings and dead end tracks no matter how long they are.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 12, 2015 4:49 PM

The "problem" is the power routing turnout.  What type of turnout is it?

Peco? If so, Insulfrog or Electrofrog?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by selector on Thursday, November 12, 2015 5:37 PM

This behaviour could be due to a number of issues.  One could be joiners linking unstable track elements, or dirty joints maybe with corrosion.  It could be, as Rich says, due to the engineered qualities of your particular turnouts if they are power-routing.  If the turnouts aren't lined to the siding or ladder track in question, and that length of track has no direct feed, the track will be dead if all that connects it to power is a pair of joiners at the frog and stock rails of the turnout.

Maybe metal tab wipers are worn or dirty if the turnout is meant to route power via that means.

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Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:11 PM

Thanks guys for the tips, looks like I will have to add  feeders to each yard track. 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:22 PM

Let us know if you get it all working.

If those turnouts are Peco Electrofrogs, you will be faced with some additional issues.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Thursday, November 12, 2015 9:47 PM

richhotrain

Let us know if you get it all working.

If those turnouts are Peco Electrofrogs, you will be faced with some additional issues.

Rich

 

The turnouts are Kato along with the track. 

 

Dave

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 13, 2015 5:12 AM

Here is a nice little primer on Kato turnouts.

http://www.trainweb.org/nrmrc/pubs/AppNote%20Unitrack%20Turnouts.pdf

The power routing feature likely is what is resulting in an absence of power to the yard tracks.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Friday, November 13, 2015 7:20 AM

*shakes head*

You're missing a benefit of DCC if you are using power routing turnouts.

For a loco to run it has to have power.  You're power routing turnouts have either diverted power AWAY from that loco, or it's contacts are introducing noise into the signal.  I had a similar problem in the yard when I was converting the clubs power routed DC layout to DCC.

Gap each inner rail of the switch and power every yard track is your best solution.  It's not the only solution, but it's the best. 

 

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 13, 2015 7:39 AM

DigitalGriffin

*shakes head*

You're missing a benefit of DCC if you are using power routing turnouts.

For a loco to run it has to have power.  You're power routing turnouts have either diverted power AWAY from that loco, or it's contacts are introducing noise into the signal.  I had a similar problem in the yard when I was converting the clubs power routed DC layout to DCC.

Gap each inner rail of the switch and power every yard track is your best solution.  It's not the only solution, but it's the best. 

 

I agree.  It is also quite possible to power the frogs, if desired, under DG's proposed solution.

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by CSX Robert on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:34 AM

DigitalGriffin
...Gap each inner rail of the switch...

 

If Kato's HO scale power routing swicthes are like their N scale ones, then it is not necessary to gap the inner rails.

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Posted by DAVID FORTNEY on Friday, November 13, 2015 11:50 AM

I did some test wiring on one yard and everything seems to work just fine.

thanks guys for all your help. 

 

Dave

 

 

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Saturday, November 14, 2015 9:33 AM

CSX Robert
 
DigitalGriffin
...Gap each inner rail of the switch...

 

 

If Kato's HO scale power routing swicthes are like their N scale ones, then it is not necessary to gap the inner rails.

 



That's confusing because then they wouldn't be power routing switches.  The inner rail polarity is determined by the switch position.  That is how the power is routed.  stock rail to switch point to inner rails to (yard/line) track.

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, November 14, 2015 10:42 AM

 There's more than one way to power route, and over the years different brands of turnouts have used different ways. Some, like Peco Electrofrogs, set the whole frog and the diverging rails beyond the frog to the same polarity as one or the other stock rails, depending on the direction of the points. These types require gaps on the diverging frog rails between these rails and any downstream feeders, or else you get a short. The other way is the way Kato does it, the non-selected route is dead rather than at the same polarity as the selected route, so downstream of the turnout you have the stock rail side still connected as normal, and the other rail just open circuit, not connected to anything. These don;t need insulating gaps on the diverging rails and you can freely add feeders to defeat the power routing.

 I remember seeing these two different types illustrated in the wiring section of one of the old books I have. I can't remember which brand did it the way Kato does, maybe Tru Scale. It requires more internal wiring in the turnout, the more common way is like a Peco Electrofrog which is also what you get building a turnout per the Fast Tracks method (though they are not power routing as built - they just need gaps in the diverging rails).

                  --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Iansa on Friday, November 20, 2015 11:13 PM

Having been op DCC 20 yrs I learn't very early, best practice is power feeders to every piece of track on layout including turnouts. A lot of extra work but saves much frustration in the long run and also stops any voltage drop.

Rout power to frog if you want (I don't as I use insulfrog with no problems) but power rout to tracks is not neccessary with DCC.

Cheers

Ian

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