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Battery-powered radio control trains (dead rail) in HO?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
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Posted by wjstix on Monday, October 26, 2015 9:43 AM

rrebell

Now not to start a flame war but DCC reminds me of early code writing, one mistake and it didn't run or run well. My train friends have them and there is always a problem with learning the ins and outs of each decoder and the different systems, even the old Crest stuff (from before the breakup) runs on any DC or DCC system.

 
I think there's a big difference, in that a decoder comes from the factory pre-programmed. If you want, you can just change the decoder ID from 0003 to the locomotives road number, and you're done. For the first several years I was in DCC, all I did was change the ID, change CV3 and 4 to 10-15 to add a little momentum, and change CV 49 and 50 to change the lighting. (Most engines come with reversing headlights as the default. I prefer to have both headlights on at all times, but the one in the direction of travel bright and the reverse headlight dimmed.) I think many people not familiar with DCC think they get a blank decoder and have to spend hours "programming" it before it will work.
Stix
  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, October 25, 2015 10:19 PM

 Wait til people start blowing up LiPo batteries because the charging circuit isn;t hooked up right... there are plenty of ways to smoke things with dead rail, if anythign there's MORE to wire than with DCC. You're just moving around where the complexity lies. Perhaps it is the way of the future. Once there is some standard it may indeed take off. Too many different systems - picking one today would be like picking Dynatrol or Keller or Railcommand in 1992, right before the DCC standard started being worked on.

 Besides having some sort of common control signals, IMO for a dead rail system to succeed, it must offer charging from the rails so you don't have to constantly take your locos off the track to charge them. Even with modern LiPo batteries, you need a lot of space to get any sort of decent runtime, so smaller HO and anything smaller is just right out for now. Given how small they make DCC decoders these days, I'm sure the electronics for a dead rail system can be made small enough to fit even in Z scale - the problem comes back to the battery. If charging canbe done from the rails, you can get nearly unlimited run time, just like a normal track powered loco, yet still make complex trackwork like reverse loops completely dead to avoid autoreversers or other controls. Next problem is track detection - any sort of whole block detection system generally relies on sensing current flow in the rails. No problem for rolling stock, resistor wheel sets will still work, assuming there is power in the rails still. Except those dead sections. And what about light engine moves? If they do not have recharging fromt he track, the loco would be insulated from the rails. Or need pickups anyway, with a resistor across them. Further complicating the installation. Anything that applies to installing a DCC decoder and not having it smoke, such as making sure the motor brushes are isolated fromt he frame and rails, still applies to dead rail, so the very same ways people smoke DCC decoders will also smoke dead rail receivers. Possibly worse - a LiPo battery pack can provide a LOT of amps in a short time to a short.

                         --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: NW Maryland
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Posted by RRR_BethBr on Sunday, October 25, 2015 8:34 PM

I'll have to look into some of those commercial systems. Maybe wait to see how the Bachmann version works out. Their dcc setup is about as easy as they come (albeit limited), might bode well for their wireless too.

Rrinker: I'm also a bit of a Reading fan. Grew up along one of their former branches, near a small classification yard. Started my train interest in a lot of ways.

 

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  • From: west coast
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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, October 25, 2015 2:17 PM

rrinker

 Maybe people try to hard? I install decoders in my locos, program an address, and off they go. Only real mistake could be keying in say 567 when I meant to key in 576. Can't fix that. Keyboards have been around since the 1800's and people still make typos.

                   --Randy

 

 

That is because you know your particular system well or you don't try and tweek the CV's. People constantly forget they consist locos and I know many who have seen that puff of smoke and sometimes it is not their fault. Sure you can do some neat things in DCC but that is coming to dead rail, some already have it but what I am talking about is we are going to get plug and play dead rail instead of doing it ourselves, it will get a lot of fence sitters off the fence, I am sure.

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, October 25, 2015 10:20 AM

 Maybe people try to hard? I install decoders in my locos, program an address, and off they go. Only real mistake could be keying in say 567 when I meant to key in 576. Can't fix that. Keyboards have been around since the 1800's and people still make typos.

                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,595 posts
Posted by rrebell on Sunday, October 25, 2015 9:43 AM

Now not to start a flame war but DCC reminds me of early code writing, one mistake and it didn't run or run well. My train friends have them and there is always a problem with learning the ins and outs of each decoder and the different systems, even the old Crest stuff (from before the breakup) runs on any DC or DCC system.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,595 posts
Posted by rrebell on Sunday, October 25, 2015 9:24 AM

The stuff from Backmann is coming out now with more in NOV. The company that makes the chip is coming out with a plug-n-play 8 pin in Dec. and can be converted to dead rail. Even my DC train setup is wireless to the controler (Train Engineer by Crest) and I have their plug-n-play stuff made for HO but I will proubly go with the new stuff, much easyier (never could spell and I have two college degrees).

  • Member since
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  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, October 23, 2015 9:30 PM

Don't forget CVP Products as well. A friend of mine just got this set-up this week, and I'm looking forward to see how it works out ....

http://www.cvpusa.com/mini_airwire_convrtr.php

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, October 23, 2015 9:18 PM

modelmaker51

No, you are by no means alone! There are several manufacturers out there that offer battery powered radio control systems: Lochtfield Station http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/home.php?cat=452 , North West Shortline (NWSL) http://www.nwsl.com/S-CAB_Radio_DCC_Control.html are just two.

Ring Engineering http://www.ringengineering.com/ , while out of the box does require voltage on the tracks, it can easily be converted to battery power.

 

And this one:

http://shop.crest-electronics.net/main.sc

They are introducing HO sized receivers and are one of the leaders in battery power for large scale.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, October 23, 2015 1:52 PM

MRR technology is advancing even as we speak.

Some are not aware that DCC is only ONE WAY of controlling model trains with digital technology. It is easy to confuse the different methods.

Rich

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by RR Baron on Friday, October 23, 2015 1:36 PM
The initial offering of a Bachmann HO product with Blue Rail Trains circuit board (it is not a DCC decoder) installed is not dead rail. It is powered from either DC or DCC picked up from track. When DCC is used, it uses just the power not the information in the DCC packets. Per Bachmann product advertisement, the wireless touch-screen is an E-Z App equipped locomotive is controlled through your Bluetooth 4 supported Apple smart device. Available realistic, dynamic engine sound broadcast through your Bluetooth 4 supported smart device.
However, Blue Rail Trains has tested their circuit board in a dead rail configuration. It is shown in a video on their website.  If interested, keep an eye on any direct product sales from Blue Rail Trains.
RR Baron
  • Member since
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  • From: Western, MA
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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, October 23, 2015 11:52 AM

Bachmann will offer a system to use with a smartphone. Check the Bachmann site.

Some systems will run on a DC or DCC layout as the battery can be charged by either method.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
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  • From: S.E. Adirondacks, NY
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Posted by modelmaker51 on Friday, October 23, 2015 10:58 AM

No, you are by no means alone! There are several manufacturers out there that offer battery powered radio control systems: Lochtfield Station http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/home.php?cat=452 , North West Shortline (NWSL) http://www.nwsl.com/S-CAB_Radio_DCC_Control.html are just two.

Ring Engineering http://www.ringengineering.com/ , while out of the box does require voltage on the tracks, it can easily be converted to battery power.

Jay 

C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1 

Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums 

  • Member since
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  • From: NW Maryland
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Battery-powered radio control trains (dead rail) in HO?
Posted by RRR_BethBr on Friday, October 23, 2015 10:30 AM

One of my particular interests in the time I was away from the MR hobby has been RC flight - a hobby that has been entirely transformed in the last 15 years by (primarily) lithium batteries, brushless electric motors, and spread-spectrum radio technology.

I'm curious; is model railroading taking notice? Is there a(ny) movement towards battery-powered, radio controlled trains in popular indoor sizes (HO, in particular)?

I'm imagining a layout that needs no track wiring, no reversing circuitry, no hunting down shorts and wiring faults underneath the benchwork and scenery.

I haven't started the conversion to DCC yet, and I'm of half a mind not to bother. The potential for R/C just seems... better. Am I alone in this thinking?

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