hi can someone help me . i bought the granitline 25 ton locomotive and i'm having promblems making it run can someone help me
Hi truckernick1215!
Welcome to the forums!
The Grandt Line 25 tonner is a wonderful little kit but it is a bit sensitive.
First question is - is this DC or DCC?
If it is DC, does your 25 tonner run at all or is totally dead on the tracks? If it runs sporadically then cleaning the track thoroughly and adding some weight will help. Also, making sure the phosphor bronze power pickup wires are making good contact with the wheels is important for obvious reasons.
If it is totally dead then I would suggest retracing the wiring to make sure there are no shorts.
One way to test it is to take the locomotive off the track and apply power directly to the motor leads. It should run when power is applied. If the motor buzzes but won't turn over then there is likely something wrong with the gearing. If it runs slowly and the motor seems to be under load then again I would have a look at the gears and axles. If it runs fine then you will know that the problem is somewhere in the electrical connections between the track and the motor.
If it is DCC, did you test the locomotive before installing the decoder? If not then I would remove the decoder and make sure it runs well on DC first. Once it runs well, reinstall the decoder making sure that the leads are connected properly, and then reset the decoder. It should run on address '3' (not '003').
I took a bit different approach to my 25 tonner. I replaced the original drive system with a BullAnt drive from Hollywood Foundries and I installed a Loksound Micro decoder and sugar cube speaker. I removed the flywheel and put a Loksound 'Power Pack' keep alive in its place. The thing runs perfectly even through turnouts. Granted it was not a cheap conversion but the performance was worth it IMHO.
Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwZqS7C_g20
Here is a video of a Grandt Line Boxcab with the same drive. It shows just how effective the keep alive is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbON9UdL3lI
The Boxcab was filmed with code 88 wheels installed. Since then I have changed them to code 110 and it no longer falls into the turnout gap.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Truckernick 1215:
I have the boxcab model and even on clean track it initially run rather erratically sometimes stopping and requiring a push to start it. I was only able to get decent performance from mine after I added weight inside the shell.
Joe
Good advice on trouble-shooting from Dave.
Follow through on it to make sure you know where the issue is.
As Joe noted, that said, even when running well, operating it is greatly aided by every bit of weight you can add. With the stock mechanism there is room underneath, behind the pilots, etc. This is a place where the tungsten putty they sell for weighing Pine Wood Derby cars with comes in very handy.
Also, once things seem to run well under test conditions, related to adding more weight is good contact. This is always difficult with 4-wheel locos, because the slightest issue with anything but perfectly flat track can be troublesome. Using a plate of glass, set the loco on it. Then use a Post-It note or other small slip of paper to probe to see if the loco is sitting flat by probing to see if the paper will slip under any of the wheels. If it does without much effort, that's a wheel sitting too high.
On my loco, I needed to "adjust" the frame by gently squashing it and regluing the corners to get it to sit on all four corners when I built it, as it wasn't perfectly square to start with. I later did it to adjust it a little further after it was finished. Takes a "no fear" approach to squash a loco, though. YMMV
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
i can't get mine to run
Here is a picture of the weight I added to the 25 tonner. I used 1/16" lead sheet. You can buy lead sheet on the internet. It's not exactly cheap and shipping costs are a killer, but you might also try a roofing material wholesaler in your area if you have one. Lead sheet is used for flashing on tile roofs.
This was taken before I replaced the flywheel with a keep alive circuit.
truckernick1215 i can't get mine to run
Do a visual. If you do not see a broken wire, get your multimeter out and do a continuity check. Very simple.
Also, try to rotate the motor armature to make sure the gears are not locked up.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
If inspection turns up nothing amiss, then feed the + and - motor leads with 12 volts directly (assuming there's no decoder in place, otherwise unwire it to protect it when probing into the tiny spaces.)
If the motor wants to run, slight movement or humming/buzzing sound, then the issue is the gear train.
If nothing happens, then it may be bad wiring between the rails and the motor, a bad motor, or a bad decoder (if one was installed.)
On this model, there are a couple of feeds from the two sides on the rails up to motor that are made of stiff wire. These need close attention to be in the right place to contact the wiring to the motor. It's a bit fiddly and would be the first place I'd check as it's the most likely to have been misassembled.
truckernick1215:
You need to provide more details for us to figure out the problem.
Is it DC or is there a decoder already installed?
Have you done any of the tests that have been suggested?
Is the shell glued onto the frame or is the roof glued onto the shell?
Let us know what you have tried and we can walk you through subsequent tests step by step.
i can't figure out how to make the electrical connection from the body to the motor to get it running
Hi truckernick:
I have read and re-read and re-re-read the instructions and I still don't see how power gets to the top motor brush. It almost seems to me like they are using the motor case as one conductor. I would suggest contacting Grandt Line directly to see if they can explain it.
http://www.grandtline.com/contact/contact_home.html
Alternately, just solder some decoder wire between the pick up wires and the motor brush contacts. You may have to cut some small grooves where the wires might get pinched between the motor and the frame.
As I said in my earlier post, I decided early on that the original mechanism was a bit lacking so I replaced the whole thing with a BullAnt. If you are interested let me know and I can post the specs.
http://hollywoodfoundry.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=10&cat=BullAnt+Drive+Mechanisms
Not cheap, but they run beautifully!
On my boxcab the wheel pickups are held in place by small screws. Two small wires are trapped under these screws and go to the motor brush caps where they are soldered. I don't recall if I rigged this or if it was in the directions.
Joe,
The boxcab is, I suspect, rigged a bit differently than the little GE. On the GE, there's a small plastic mount for the wipers that sends them up to contact the motor.
truckernick1215 i can't figure out how to make the electrical connection from the body to the motor to get it running
I suspect this is part of the problem. I tried to find my instructions and couldn't, nor could I find them online. However, I do remember this part of things being a bit vague. The fact that the current path isn't clear to you leads me to suspect the two wipers may be misaligned or otherwise not in contact with the motor, thus no power to it.
However, if you turn the loco over, you'll see a plastic bar that sits between and slightly above the axles (when it's upright). It holds the wipers that contact the wheels on the inside of three of them and on the outside of the wheel that is closest to the drive gear (because of the need for clearance).
From there, each side of the pickup goes up to the respective sides of the motor to power it. I used a small bead of solder to ensure contact between the wipers and the + and - leads up to the motor or, in my case, to the decoder since it's DCC.
I'm betting your issue is connected to how those wires are not making proper contact on either the + or - side of things.
Joe and Mike:
The box cab wiring is significantly different from the 25 tonner. I have both sets of instructions. (The box cab is much simpler by the way).
If I recall correctly, I never finished assembling the 25 tonner drive system. I was having trouble with the motor not staying in place so I decided to opt for the BullAnt and be done with it.
I did have the box cab running with the original drive and it did ok, but I have more money than brains so I again decided to go with a BullAnt drive.
By the way, Just in case you are wondering, I don't have much money!
hi dave this is nick wickberg if i buy another ge 25 tonner could you get the thing to run for me
Hi Nick.
I'm flattered that you would ask me. I'll have to think about your request for a bit. I have tons of my own projects on the go so I'm reluctant to take on somebody else's work too.
Let me ask a couple of questions:
- Are you using DC or DCC?
- Do you want to use the original drive system or do you want to spend the money for a BullAnt drive?
If you want a reliable runner you need to invest in the BullAnt drive, and if you are DCC you need a Loksound Power Pack (keep alive), and a Loksound Select Micro decoder. Current price for the BullAnt is about $75.00 USD plus about $16.00 shipping from Australia. The Loksound decoder is about $80.00 and the Power Pack is a little over $40.00, plus shipping. The whole project will cost about $300.00 USD for materials. That's includes the cost for the Grandt Line kit, couplers and shipping but without paint and decals. I'm not willing to provide my labour for free. If you want to discuss labour costs we can't do it here. Against the rules. Also, I don't want this to be the tip of an iceberg!
- Did you ever get the first 25 tonner working? If you didn't get it working, what condition is it in now? Is it salvagable? Or are you wanting to have a second operating locomotive?
- What sort of guarantee do you expect?
If you are doing the whole thing with the BullAnt, decoder and Power Pack then its a pretty safe bet that I can build you a good solid runner. I won't put that in writing (I guess I just did but I hope you understand my meaning).
If you want to try DCC with the original motor I'm not sure if we can get a reliable runner. You would still need the Power Pack.
If you are using DC and want to use the original motor then I absolutely will not guarantee a reliable runner. There is only so much room for weight, and your track work will have to be spotless to avoid stalling. You will also need powered frogs or forget the whole thing in DC. I can't predict DCC operation without powered frogs either.
There you have it!
Sorry if my post has turned you off the project but you have to understand what is involved.
Please let me know where you stand on this.
Regards