[quote user="zstripe"]You have to be more meticulous in Your search...visual won't work in this case. Good Luck! Frank
Bruce22,
The above works 99% of the time.
Glad You resolved the problem.
Take Care!
Frank
Bruce, glad to hear that you found the problem and thanks for reporting back to us.
Rich
Alton Junction
I am going to go out on a limb here and speculate as to a possible cause of the short. My speculation assumes that the double slip is an Insulfrog.
You indicate that a dead short occurs as the point rails are thrown.
If you study a Peco double slip turnout, there are two stock rails, four frog rails, and four closure rails. One stock rail, two frog rails, and two closure rails carry a positive polarity and the opposite stock rail, frog rails and closure rails carry a negative polarity. All ten of these rails are fixed (non-movable) and gapped with jumpers molded to the underside of the rails to provide connectivity.
In addition to these ten fixed rails, there are eight hinged (movable) point rails, and two throwbars, each of which controls the movement of 4 point rails.
Since you have said that the problem is definitely a short and that the gaps are not compromised, I would conclude that there is no problem with any of the ten fixed rails.
My guess is that the problem is with one of the hinged point rails.
Peco turnouts, including double slips, are all power routing. Power is transferred to the point rails by making physical contact with the adjoining fixed rails. For a dead short to occur, one of the point rails would have to pick up power of the opposite polarity from a nearby point rail.
Visually check all eight point rails to determine if they are all moving correctly or if one or more of the point rails are failing to move correctly as the throwbars are activated.
MICAH HILEMAN how do you start a new thread ? Up at the top of this forum's main page you'll see a box titled "start a new discussion topic". Click there, type your question, press "submit".
how do you start a new thread ?
Up at the top of this forum's main page you'll see a box titled "start a new discussion topic". Click there, type your question, press "submit".
how do you start a new thread?
Micah,
You're sort of hyjacking someone else's thread. Try starting a new topic and I'll be happy to help you.
Also, do you have to solder the track sections together for the electricity to flow through the rails???
I am also stumped. I recently aqquired some track and a power pack to run trains.
I need 2 wires to connect the power pack to the rerailer. Would any kind of wire work or if not, what kind of wire would be required? thje power pack is an old bachmann one.
Bruce, with all due respect, you haven't answered many of the questions that we have asked of you, so it is impossible to do anything but speculate as to what is causing the problem.
bruce22 I have a Peco double slip HO turnout that has operated flawlessly for over ten years,until recently. Whenever one leg is switched I get a short. I run DCC and have isolated this section, removed all rolling stock and loco's to no avail. Visually the turnout looks OK. Any thoughts ? Thanks
I have a Peco double slip HO turnout that has operated flawlessly for over ten years,until recently. Whenever one leg is switched I get a short. I run DCC and have isolated this section, removed all rolling stock and loco's to no avail. Visually the turnout looks OK. Any thoughts ? Thanks
Are You sure it is a short? System shuts down/or trips breaker?
Or an open, where when switched to diverging route, there is not power and engine will not run or shuts down because of loss of power? A lot of people confuse short and open terminology.
Hopefully You have a multimeter, so You can take a continuity test with power off with points set straight and then when switched to divergient. If You do not get continuity when switched to devergient, You have an open. One of the jumpers may be loosing contact under the frog or from stock rail. It may have taken ten yrs. to happen, ballast glue, dirt build up, oxidation.
You have to be more meticulous in Your search...visual won't work in this case.
Good Luck!
bruce22Thanks everyone but: it has never been gapped, all rail joints have been soldered and it has been ballasted in since day one. Are there any internal connections or tabs that may have gone askew? Looks like I will have a major replacement to undertake if I can't find the cause.
There are tabs that make contact between the point rails and the stock rails, but when these go bad, generally due to getting dirty or oxidized, the result is usually locos stalling because of loss of power, not shorts.
Perhaps there is a loose spike, or a bit of cut off wire that fell in around the frogs. Spikes you can clear out by running a magnet over the crossover, but if it's a bit of wire you will have to find and pick out by hand. Use a magnifying glass and carefully look over the entire section, especially where there are plastic bits to insulate things to make sure nothing is bridging what should be insulated.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Frank, I didn't tell you that your post was either helpful or not helpful. I asked, how does that help the OP.
Your latest reply seems a lot more helpful than the first reply which claimed that your layout was problem-free for 35 years and counting - - a claim that should raise some eyebrows.
richhotrain For another, the OP is running DCC, you are running DC. Shorts are more likely to occur with DCC or at least are more likely to cause problems.
Rich,
A short is a short... whether it be DC/DCC OR AC for that matter...whether Atlas makes double slip turnouts is irrelevant.
Just plug in a DCC system on My layout and it will run....simple as that.
The OP said it shorts on the divergent route on a siding....I believe something on the siding is causing it. Like for instance, did by chance He put a end of track bumper on it, that is all Metal???? The Peco is power routing. Is the siding double ended?
Still a lot of unanswered questions and I don't see how You have the right to tell me whether My post was helpful or not.
zstripe 35yrs and running....Atlas track, Atlas Turnouts...45 blocks, insulated double rail joiners also Atlas clear....not one bit of a problem with trackwork or wheels jumping over insulated rail joiners. ( cut the tip off, flush with the rail head) I also live in the Midwest, with four seasons and never had a problem with expansion or contraction. What am I doing different than others, that seem to have these problem's? I can't figure that one out.
35yrs and running....Atlas track, Atlas Turnouts...45 blocks, insulated double rail joiners also Atlas clear....not one bit of a problem with trackwork or wheels jumping over insulated rail joiners. ( cut the tip off, flush with the rail head) I also live in the Midwest, with four seasons and never had a problem with expansion or contraction. What am I doing different than others, that seem to have these problem's? I can't figure that one out.
For one thing, Atlas doesn't even make a double slip. For another, the OP is running DCC, you are running DC. Shorts are more likely to occur with DCC or at least are more likely to cause problems.
That Peco double slip was flawless for 10 years, but is now exhibiting shorts. The cause is mostly likely a closed gap. Get out the Optivisor and starting checking for closed gaps.
Good Luck, OP!
Besides the possibility that a rail has moved (use a needle-nose plier to pull it back), check the hidden connections under the turn out. Water based paint or latex caulk can transmit electricity when wet, (and where occluded from air cannot dry) and can cause problems.
Isolate everything, test everything. LION is having his own problems with a double slip switch but him is wroking on it.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
With Peco track I'd use their insulated joiners. At least with their Code 83 track, the insulated joiners are completely invisible. I have some I picked up to test - and use for a micro layout I was planning to put together. They are clear plastic and the between rail ends piece is below the railhead, unlike some Atlas ones that stick up above the railhead and make the wheels jump crossing them.
The trick to roling your own is to use a piece of styrene the same thickness as your cutoff wheel so it drops right in the gap. The use small needle files to file the plastic to shape after cementing it in with a drop of CA. As long as it does not project above the railhead, nor into the flangeway on the inside of the rail, there should be no problems.
I have noticed that some gaps can change with the humidity. The only solution I have found is to widen the gaps. I have tried to make insulators to go between the gaps, but they caused more problems.
South Penn
Insulfrog or Electrofrog?
My guess is that one of your rail gaps closed up over time - so what was gapped and worked great, no longer is.