Engineers I worked with who worked on satellite circuits said they would bond the dies of integrated circuits directly onto what we would call a circuit board, eliminating the plastic housing and pins and connecting directly to pads on the die.
if you really want a small decoder, wouldn't it be better to eliminate any connectors and have wires soldered directly to where they are needed on both the decoder and the locomotive?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Those tiny decoders from CT Electronik ARE about the size of the 8 pin plug. The new 21 pin MTC connector is significantly smaller than the old 8 pin. The only reson it even needs 21 pins is that to handle 1 to 1.5 amps, the input and the motor drive has to be spread across multiple pins.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hello All,
One solution to the connector size limitation for after market decoders would be to build the components into the connector. I have seen electronic components cast in resin thus avioding traditional PCB's.
I'm thinking a complete non-sound decoder built in the space of an NMRA 8-pin PCB plug. From there you could have leads to connect to lights and speakers. The keep alive caps would be built into this device. Because of the small size and placement on top of the existing PCB no insulation would be needed so heat-skink problems would be minimal.
Another option would be to install the smaller components on to the OEM PCB's making these PCB's smaller to facilitate things like speakers in the same space.
As with all technologies there will be an expensive first generation and then prices will plummet. However, as often happens, these savings probably won't be passed on to the consumer. You'll simply get less for more!
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
'seems to me that one of the limiting factors to how small a decoder can be is the size of the connector. The NMRA eight-pin plug, the nine-pin JST connector and the 21-pin connector all have definite minimum size requirements.
I wonder what the next generation of connector will look like.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
As a retired electronics engineer who went to college and learned vacuum tube electronics along side the early semiconductor boom, I can answer....YES! things will get much smaller in the DCC world and more functional. The heat is a function of current semiconductor technology and the voltages used. 3.3 volt logic now common and 1.6 volt is on the horizon.
Don't ask me how they do it. They just do it and stuff gets smaller with lower heat signatures. Microcontrollers get more powerful in smaller packages almost daily!
Keep alive capacitors are bulky only because those capacitors that are smaller and would fit are still rather costly. Smaller capacitors or greater storage capacity are already here and by the time they are cheap, we will all have on board, DDC radio control with absoltuely no voltage on the track with all that switch work, loop control, section blocking, power districting, rail joiner soldering, rail power tapping and other worries just a distant memory.
The tip of this coming revolution is already here in the larger gauges, though crude, just as early DCC and sound needed larger gauges to contain the stuff which was pretty crude even then.....
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
Baaaaaack on topic.
There may be some pesky things that keep decoders from shrinking. One think I can think of, of late, are the more and more popular keep alive features which are rather bulky.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
LOL....Rich...You're taking all the fun out of it.
I bought another one...He He....But this one has a built in Gyro and it makes it easier to fly. But still...there is a learning curve, this one will still fly, if one of the motors burn out. They usually come with four extra props...that's about the first to go.
I've learned from the R/C guy's at the field in In. where we go, that the cheapo one's aren't that great....the one's in the 500+ range, are the serious one's. One guy was following My grandson in the air when He was operating His R/C Monster truck on the course with the built in camera. Now that Guy knew what the hell He was doing...Great video...I asked My Son to see if He could ask the guy for a copy...He own's an R/C shop in Indiana.
I guarantee the MFG. will respond on the high$$$$ one's.
Breaks over....back to Trains.
Have a Good One All!
Frank
BTW: I said My Grandson was 5 yrs. old....duh! He just turned 7.
My initial enthusiasm for the Nano Quad Coptor has subsided somewhat. I was reading some reviews on Amazon (over 800 in total).
It is very difficult to master, as Frank has pointed out. There are no replacement parts, and it crashes easily. It eventually breaks and the motor eventually burns out in almost every review. The manufacturer is not responsive when contacted on the 90-day warranty.
Just some stuff to keep in mind.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich,
Yes they are pretty cool and price wise....You can get one with every thing You need for under 50.00. The SMD's are unbeliveable in size. There is a total of eight of them on the one I bought, four white, two red and two blue. They are about the size of an HO Scale figures hand...I measured. My aim is to learn how to really control one so I can get the one with the camera and fly over the layout. Those can become addictive, I'm learning and I'll bet that guy in the first video had a lot more experience than I do....My mistake was learning how to control it in the house. LOL
Take Care!
OK, this one is even better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFE0y9F_xFU
zstripe They already have those tiny decoders in the Nano Quad coptors, that are controlled by tiny Transceivers in the R/C catagories. I'm still trying to learn how to fly one and get it to hover in one spot, to take pic's with. The batt. is also part of the unit, which can be charged from a USB port on Your PC. Flying time is one hour. They are almost flooding the R/C market now, with all these drone R/C units. Here is one version of many: I got My 5yr old Grandson a 50.00 one to mess with and it is amazing what they have in Electronic's now. If they are letting all these gagets on the market now....the powers to be,must be light yrs ahead of the technology that they are letting the public have. http://www.lightinthebox.com/the-new-version-l250-2-2-4g-6ch-fpv-rc-remote-control-quadcoptor-rtf_p2822405.html This one is similar to the one I'm trying to hover over the layout....It can be done...I just havn't aquired the skill level to fly it yet! http://www.lightinthebox.com/2-4g-4ch-nano-size-world-s-smallest-rc-quadcopter-with-gyro_p1421845.html Take Care! Frank BTW: I crashed about ten times, trying to fly My Grandson's, over My layout....fortunately...no damage done.
They already have those tiny decoders in the Nano Quad coptors, that are controlled by tiny Transceivers in the R/C catagories. I'm still trying to learn how to fly one and get it to hover in one spot, to take pic's with. The batt. is also part of the unit, which can be charged from a USB port on Your PC. Flying time is one hour. They are almost flooding the R/C market now, with all these drone R/C units.
Here is one version of many: I got My 5yr old Grandson a 50.00 one to mess with and it is amazing what they have in Electronic's now. If they are letting all these gagets on the market now....the powers to be,must be light yrs ahead of the technology that they are letting the public have.
http://www.lightinthebox.com/the-new-version-l250-2-2-4g-6ch-fpv-rc-remote-control-quadcoptor-rtf_p2822405.html
This one is similar to the one I'm trying to hover over the layout....It can be done...I just havn't aquired the skill level to fly it yet!
http://www.lightinthebox.com/2-4g-4ch-nano-size-world-s-smallest-rc-quadcopter-with-gyro_p1421845.html
BTW: I crashed about ten times, trying to fly My Grandson's, over My layout....fortunately...no damage done.
Check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAm-9jS7B2I
So... disguise the heat sinks in the reistor banks of the dynamic braking system.
No joke, some computer have liquid cooled CPUs, and you can put the fins and fans anywhere you like.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
The electronics might get smaller, but the heat sink will be rather large.
Maybe the locomotive manufacturers will develope a method to attach the decoder to the weight. The weight would become the heat sink.
South Penn
Possibly, but there will be physical limitations with surface area and heat dissipation at some point. There already are some pretty tiny decoders. CT Elektonik has one that is smaller than the Roosevelt's head on a dime. Unless you are trying to use DCC on that new super tiny scale (smaller than Z), I think this could fit anywhere.
http://store.sbs4dcc.com/CTElektronikDCX76zD/FSub-MicroDCCDecoderNEM6516-PinWiredPlug.aspx
I suspect they already have, but do you folks think they will get smaller to better fit in tight spaces? I supose the limitation is the size of some of the components and cost as it's likely that other digital items in the world are quite small but have higher volumes of production and demand to bring the price down?
Victor A. Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana