Dear all,
it seems that Soundtraxx has released new sound decoder:
http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/index.php
Manual is still not available, so you can learn about it just thru the above link.
I just hope they did not "forget" Tsunami decoder, it is really ready for total overhaul...
Hrvoje
So #2000late! Much more advanced and better sound out there nowadays and they release this? Now I remeber why I got away from soundtraxx.
Holshot14 So #2000late! Much more advanced and better sound out there nowadays and they release this? Now I remeber why I got away from soundtraxx.
That's a bit harsh. You can't say how good it is or isn't, until it's reviewed. They may have fixed their diesel horns or other issues and made it a good economical alternative.I find still Soundtraxx tsunami's excellent decoders for steam for those who don't want to fiddle with a lot of CVs.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
DigitalGriffin I find still Soundtraxx tsunami's excellent decoders for steam for those who don't want to fiddle with a lot of CVs.
I find still Soundtraxx tsunami's excellent decoders for steam for those who don't want to fiddle with a lot of CVs.
It looks like a big move towards price point, compared to Tsunami, LokSound Select, etc. The Tsunami's seem to sell at about $96, whereas these $80 MSRP Econo versions should go for about $65 (assuming MBKlein discounts both similarly.
I've been converting a number of diesels with LokSound Selects, which cost me $82 and I'm very happy with them. But I'm reasonably happy with my Genesis Tsunami equipped FEF3, challenger and big boy. I was unhappy enough with my Genesis GP9 Tsunami (due to the poor horn mentioned above) such that I changed it to a LokSound Select, but I also improved the speaker, so can't isolate the significant improvement to the decoder versus speaker.
I see they the Econo has 5 prime mover diesel selections, whereas the Tsunami has 20 decoder versions for particular locos. A big issue for me would be whether one CV functions that is turned off in the Bachmann Sound Value Tsunami's; i.e., the sound coming on with track power. I have that on a 2-6-0 and it's really (to me) annoying. I'm going to change out that decoder.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Umm, it's an economy (try saying the name out loud) decoder and not intended to compete directly with top-of-the-line stuff. So you're talking apples and oranges -- and that's even before giving it a chance to see what you get for your money.
Frankly, I think there's a lot to like for your money with this decoder. The small size is definitely a boon to it's usefulness.
And it bodes well for the next-gen Tsunami when it finally does arrive. Yes, the original may be long in tooth at this point, but I suspect it's because Soundtraxx is working to not only bring a decoder to market that not only meets the expectations that have gone up since the original Tsunami was introduced, but to exceed those.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
The sound sample still sounds like the old recordings. New features and pricing ain't gonna cut it if it's the same weak sounds. The horn almost sounds electronically generated. Update their recordings and they may have something.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
They appear to have at least updated their main chip, to be able to make the decoder smaller than a Micro-Tsunami and actually increase the current to 1am from .75 amp. So at least that's a step in the right direction. But the same anemic horns... Do we get better motor control, or is BEMF left off in the interests of 'economy'?
Shouldn't be long before someone gets one and posta a YouTube video of it. Then we'll see. It would have to be incredibly awesome to make me switch from the Loksound infrastructure - and they've been doing nothing but continuous improvements all along. If you happen to follow their Faceboook page, they've been out gathering fresh new recordings to update their sound library. If the others are also doing this, for some reason they are keeping quiet about it. Better recordings can improve even older decoders.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Being discussed in the Yahoo SoundTraxx Group.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/soundtraxx/info
Too bad some cannot try the product before passing judgment.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998Too bad some cannot try the product before passing judgment.
Amen to that.
Basically, they're taking most of a Tsunami, clipping off a few whizbang things, ADDING lots of options (~15 horns when you only had 6). As Randy noted, some significant packaging and capability improvments, too. Basically, they're taking a slenderized Tsunami and pricing it at about two-thirds that cost.
RR baron already mentioned it, but not only BEMF, but improved over previous versions. The full feature list is actually pretty impressive: http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/index.php?l=features
I suspect the next-gen Tsunami will slot in pricewise where the current one is. What the Econami offers will be a relatively full featured version of the present gen Tsunami in a smaller package for a cheaper price.
Then they'll just have to be patient.
As for complaints about the current Tsunami's sound quality relative to others....it's been on the market a decade now and it was a leader when it first appeared. Of course it's showing its age. The improvements will be worth the wait, I suspect.
The original Tsunami was a giant leap when it was ANNOUNCED. But by the time they actually got it to market it was a different story. I first heard one back when the NMRA convention and NTS was in Philly. Steam only, in a Blackstone narrow gauge loco at their booth. The steam sounds were awesome. The whistle, not so much. Very faint. But to put it in perspective, when Tsunami was announced, ESU was shipping Loksound 2.0. By the time Tsunami shipped, Loksound had the 3.5
Since this Economi almost certainly has to be a whole new chip (like I said, smaller than the existing one, which if you look at the pic of a Micro Tsunami with the shrink wrap removed, takes up the full width of the circuit board, and the Economi is smaller, plus it goes to 1 amp, not .75 amp), I'm guessing they are doing like many complex chip makers do and are rolling out the low cost version with fewer features first, and the full featured version will come when the chip yields (with all features enabled) reach a good enough number. I can't imagine they've developed multiple chips, for the limited market that is model railroading (sad but true), that would be cost prohibitive. Much like video card GPUs - as long as a minimum number of features work on the chip, it's up to the level of the lower model, ones that pass full QC with all components functioning are the high end ones. Same chip, different levels of performance. If they only sold the high end one, every chip that came off the line with a failure would be a total reject, driving costs up even more. Instead, these are now sold as a lower end model. Nothing wrong with that, the way chips are made, there are many places where you can have a failure that does not mean the rest of the die is junk. Ones yields go up as the production matures, you end up deliberately disabling features to make the lower end product, depending on the demand - you may no longer have enough of the 'defective' chips coming off the line.
As for wait and see, what's to wait and see about? Will they be programmable, like nearly everyone else's now, or are we still stuck with different models across each form factor? Are they all new recordings, because if not, the horns will still be poor. Do they still respond the same way, in that speed step 1 starts them up, so your loco is moving while still playing the startup sounds?
Randy,
That's probably a pretty good assessment of where this project stands in terms of its relationship to the next-gen Tsunami right now. I also suspect the small envelope one is basically the same chassis we'll see when the high end version appears.
rrinker As for wait and see, what's to wait and see about?
Well, it's about the new Tsunami. I suspect the sound files in it will be superior to what's current.
I know they have sample sounds up on the website for the Econami, but I really doubt they are representative of what will be on the high-end version. Besides the filtering through the computer's sound system versus actually listening to a real-life example illustratiom -- which has yet to happen as none of the critics have one in their hands; comments about that are obviously all speculation, no matter how strongly felt they may be.
The startup thing...don't the diesel users have a CV fix for that? In steam, we do. So that's pretty much a non-issue for steam Tsunami users if they search it out. Be happy to send along my three variants of a fix list, but doubt that will do diesel much good. In fact, in general steam users have minimal complaints, most of the issues people claim seem to be with diesel Tsunami installs. And how a 10 year old product suffers by way of comparison to, say, a 3 or 5 year old product.
I guess people think Nancy and her crew in Durango are tone deaf about people's concerns? From my experience, they take such issues seriously, so I presume the next-gen Tsunami will address most of them in good fashion. I certainly have no expectations of failure.
For many years, people have requested that Soundtraxx release the economy version of their Tsunami, as supplied in Bachmann steam and diesel engines. Sounds (pun intended) like that's what they're doing here. I don't think it's meant to be a new decoder in the sense of being the 'next generation' of decoder, just releasing the simplified version of the decoder to the general public rather than just to a manufacturer's proprietary use.
Stix,
A couple of years ago, Soundtraxx made some major investments in their chip production facilities. This is not a contract-out operation (assembly of Blackstone is, but that's somethimng different.) They make them right there in Durango. One can only presume that such long-term investment are done with an eye on future design.
The narrower board and size deuction overall suggest the need for a new production line. I'm not privy to anything special here, just been paying attention to press releases and know a bit about chip making (just enough to be dnagerous probably, my wife is an EE and our town is thick with folks in training to do such.)
It's possible the new Tsunami won't be built on this chassis, but I suspect it will be. In fact, it may be one of several form factors offered, just as the Econami is being marketed. My guess if that happens is that all the Econami boards/decoders will have a next-gen Tsunami equivalent, plus there will be the smallest Tsunami yet, even smaller than the small Econami board, to compete with some of the smaller decoders available or projected by other mfgs.
If this decoder is smaller than a micro tsunami and had comparable features as the current crop, it would still be a viable market for those in smaller scales. The only reason I don't have a Z scale layout yet is because of the lack of sound. In electronics, things get smaller and cheaper with time, thats the trend. Frankly, I am suprised it is taking manufacturers this long to shrink decoders.
Right from the SoundTraxx site. I will not troll and give an opinion. SoundTraxx decoders have worked very well for me.
Rich,
I don't think there's anything wrong with having an opinion, in fact that makes for interesting conversation. It's when people treat their opinion as if it were fact that the problems begin. Distinguishing between the two is the best way to sort that out, but that's just what works for me.
Has anyone gotten one of these yet? I'm getting a Kato AC4400 and was about to buy a sound decoder and then noticed this. I'm actually the most curious about the new motor drive performance.
I think they're still not quite available. They are listed as coming soon on several dealer websites. IIRC, there was some mention of a late summer release. Soundtraxx/Blackstone makes appearances at both the NMRA National Train Show and at the National Narrow Gauge Convention, so most likely will be available beginning then.