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Best DCC System

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Posted by CSX Robert on Friday, July 3, 2015 6:52 AM

SouthPenn

 

 
blabride

 The battery issue can be solved by powering your UP5 panels with the optional power supply which is very cheap.

Thanks

SB

 

 

 

I'm confused. How does this help the battery situation in the handheld throttle ( radio control )?

South Penn

 

If you power your UP5's separately, when you turn off your DCC system you can leave your throttles plugged in and they will draw power from the UP5 instead of the battery, preventing battery drain.

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Posted by mfm37 on Thursday, July 2, 2015 4:39 PM
Any one of them operating on address 00?. anyone who might happen to program on the main to address 0 will also program everything on the track. Adress 00 is the NMRA broadcast address that all NMRA compliant decoders will respond to. That's how a broadcast "all stop" is sent.
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Posted by SouthPenn on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 11:24 PM

blabride

 The battery issue can be solved by powering your UP5 panels with the optional power supply which is very cheap.

Thanks

SB

 

I'm confused. How does this help the battery situation in the handheld throttle ( radio control )?

South Penn

South Penn
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Posted by SouthPenn on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 11:13 PM

CSX Robert,

There were two operators running trains when this happened.

South Penn

South Penn
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Posted by blabride on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 10:51 PM

Randy,

Thanks for the info. This is helpful. I have found I dont tend to get it as long as I push loco, display then exit before I turn everything off. Although I am not sure the locos are ever cleared as the previously run loco number's are the first that appear when I hit the loco button the next time I turn thngs back on.

SB

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 7:15 PM

Slot Max is caused by not properly dispatching a loco when done with it. Speed needs to be 0, and all functions turned off. Then the loco address will automatically be purged. My Zephyr only hold 12 addresses at a time and I've only gotten this when I was testing to confirm it really was 12 and not 10 as advertised. In normal operation I have never seen this. Haven't seen it at the club and people are forever picking the wrong address by mistake and then just changing to the right on while leaving the incorrect one still set at full speed.

               --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by blabride on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:54 PM

This came up a few years ago on the old Atlas forum and my reply was any system is easy to operate once you understand that systems language. Yes the NCE system is very intuitive and makes things very easy to program a loco out of the box. However I have found the Digitrax system much more convenient to operate my 16 by 24 foot layout. The battery issue can be solved by powering your UP5 panels with the optional power supply which is very cheap. I also love the ability to run two trains simultaneously and see what they are doing in the display on my DT402. On the NCE you have to hit a recall button to switch between the two.

Consisting on Digitrax is more simple in my brain as well. But, programming on the Digitrax does not work well with how I think. Therefore I program on a test track at my bench with an NCE Powercab. The best of both worlds. My only other problem with Digitrax is the pesky slotmax message I get sometimes. I'm still not sure what causes it. 

Everyone is right here in that between the major players they all have their strengths, therefore its best to find somewhere to check out how they feel and operate in your hand.

Thanks

SB

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Posted by Bob Schuknecht on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:45 PM

I use NCE on my home layout and I have operated on layouts that use Digitrax. I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 3:02 PM

SouthPenn
...Also check the instructions for making and braking a consist. The difference between Digitrax an NCE is jaw dropping...

NCE:

Press "Setup". Press "Enter" to select Advanced consist.  Enter consist address or just press "Enter" to accept the default. Enter lead loco address. Enter rear loco address.  Enter additional loco addressess.  When done, press "Enter" or "ESC".

Digitrax DT402:

Select the Top loco address on the right throttle, select a loco address to add to the consist on the left throttle.  Press the "MU" key, then "+".  To add additional locos, select each one on the left throttle and press "MU", "+".

Jaw dropping difference???

 

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 2:59 PM

SouthPenn
...Long story short...every engine on the layout ( ~30 ) had the same address in it...

That's what happens with a DB150 (Empire Builder) when you program an engine address using service mode (program track) when you are connected to the layout.  The same thing will happen with a Power Cab under the same circumstances.

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Posted by Renegade1c on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 1:46 PM

SouthPenn

I recently replaced a Digitrax Super Empire Builder with radio with an NCE Power Pro with radio. It's the best thing I have done for my layout in years. It is like day and night. It's now fun to run my trains again.

 

As mention earlier reading back what setting is in a certain CV can really be helpful. NCE reads the settings, the Digitrax doesn't.

I am now in the process of removing all the Digitrax auto reversers with their vintage 1960's relay and manual adjustments.

If you decide on Digitrax, PM me.

South Penn

 

The above issue about reading back CV's is limited to the Empire Builder System. It uses a DB (booster) as a command station which has limited programming capabilities.

Any system that has a DCS (be it a 50/51 Zephyr, or 100/200 Super Chief) type command station has CV readback capability. 

I am a digitrax user. I have used it since 1996.  I guess you could say I am power user.  While I do agree that the NCE throttles are nicer and easier to use there are other reasons why I will continue to Digitrax. Loconet is the main reason I continue to use Digitrax. There are so many third party accesories that are Loconet compatible that the possibilities are endless. I may someday switch to using NCE for Train control and have a dedicated loconet for my block detection and signalling. 

I don't particularly care for Digitrax's circuit breakers or block detectors. I use DCC Specialties PSX breakers and RRcirkits for block detection and computer interface for JMRI (locobuffer USB). 

The one thing that I believe that Digitrax has done very well are their signalling decoders, the SE8c signal decoders. These boards have made adding signalling much, much easier. I currently have 64 signals on the layout and it makes it quite simple to set up. 


Colorado Front Range Railroad: 
http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/

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Posted by SouthPenn on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 8:05 AM

What really started my dislike of Digitrax happened about 2 years ago. My son and I and a guest were operating my layout. We were running about an hour when everything stopped. No beeps, no faults, nothing obvious. I could not get any of my engines to run. The next day I worked on the problem for a couple of hours. In desperation, I did a factory reset on an engine, set the throttle address at '3' and the engine ran. Long story short...every engine on the layout ( ~30 ) had the same address in it.

When I emailed Digitax tech support, the only answer I got was ( paraphased & shorten )'send your system to us with money and we will fixed it'. I was looking for a reason this happened ( did I do something stupid? ) but never got any help at all. 

Other tech support questions over the years have never been helpfull. 'It's out of warrenty' or 'send it to us with money' was the usual reply.

There's more but I can tell you that with the NCE system I am having fun with my trains again. That's what counts.

South Penn

South Penn
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Posted by carl425 on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 3:16 PM

I have seen JMRI briefly mentioned in a couple of posts.  I would recommend that you take a look at it and decide if you will use it or not before picking your DCC system.  If you decide to use JMRI, many of the differences between the systems become unimportant (especially decoder programming) and your decision criteria will change.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by narrow gauge nuclear on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 2:55 PM

How big a layout are you building or already have?  Just leaping into MR or have you been into MR for years?  Planning a 4X8 layout or a full blown empire of track?  Very important!  Are you happy with a central fixed controller or would you demand a full wireless "walk-around" controller operation?  How many locos will you operate?

For small starter layouts up to 5X10 in DCC with 4-5 locos, the Digitrax Zephyr Plus is a good inexpensive way to leap into DCC with a proven performer.  Empires of track with 10 + locos and several power blocks on the vast layout would demand a RF walk around system, most likely.

If just starting, don't blow over $150 on the entire DCC system.  If you expand down the road to a $400+ DCC setup with the additional $400+ worth of power block boosters, remote switch controls, auto reversing electronics needed to stay in full DCC control, You can relegate your starter system to test track programming or layouts for the kids or nephew relatives.

With really big layout DCC systems, you will be remote and forced to try and discern the rather poor LCD displays found on the 20+ button handhelds.  If going handheld make sure the LCD display on your hand held is vividly back lit, especially if your eye sight is poor.  There are good backlit displays and very terrible backlit displays. The best are darker blue background with brilliant white letters.  The worst are black letters with just side lighting.  Not much better is black letters against green background.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.

 

Richard

If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed

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Posted by pathman on Tuesday, June 30, 2015 9:43 AM
Thank you all for the great advice. I'm new to modeling and bought a beginner Bachmann train set with 2 DCC equipped locomotives. Now ready to get a handheld system. Will heed all the good advice. It's nice to know that both Digitrax and NCE will work well and it's just a matter of personal preference.
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Posted by CPfan on Monday, June 29, 2015 10:58 PM

Greetings, 

A few years ago I returned to the hobby after many years away and went DCC right off the bat. My layout is a room-sized, HO scale around-the-walls switiching layout. I looked at Digitrax (the Zephyr) but went with an NCE PowerCab just because I liked that it had a tethered throttle out of the box as opposed to a stationary one.

I'm very happy with my choice. I've added a few fascia panels and a second basic wired throttle. It's all worked well and no purchase would be wasted if I need to go to a 5 amp NCE booster or add radio. I've also played around with JMRI using the USB adapter. 

I think both Digitrax and NCE are excellent systems that are both upgradable and  do what most modellers want very well.  

Last year a used Digitrax duplex system came my way (The Super Chief Xtra) for a very cheap price $150), so I bought it becaue the throttle alone is worth more. I've run my layout with it and found  it had some features I like more than the NCE, others some less.

Running wireless is great but I often have very quick mini-operating sessions before leaving for work (say 20 mins) and I hate having to pull the battery out after each session. I will say that I do not find Digitrax difficult to use. The NCE throttles and interface are just more stripped down to the baisics while Digitrax brings more information and options to their LCD screens. I've found that you don't need to know the Digitrax manual chapter and verse to run trains. 

I'm not sure whether I will keep the Digitrax system but for now, the PowerCab is running my layout.  

I agree with comments that you should try to "road test" any system you're considering. If you can't get a throttle in your hand you can (sort of) read through the manuals (posted online) and imagine yourself operating the system.

Many modellers also chose to buy the system in use at their local club (if they have a club). This way you can use your throttles at the club and have other modellers for any help. 

Good luck with  your choice. 

 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, June 29, 2015 9:03 PM

 Your system was not too old, you just specified the wrong radio upgrade. You can upgrade a non-radio DT400 or DT402 to either a DT400/402R, simplex radio, or DT400/402D, duplex radio.

I don;t use the zephyr console - I hate limited turn potentiometer throttles, I bought a DT400 shortly after I bought the Zephyr and now have a DT400, a DT402, and I picked up an old DT100 on eBay for cheap - makes a good train running throttle but if you want to program with it - now THAT is where Digitrax got a reputation as being hard to use, since there are only 8 buttons and each one serves 3 or more purposes. The DT400 with one button for everythng means more buttons but MUCH MUCH easier since there are no "hmm, what mdoe am I in" or "press shift, then alt, then the button" junk.

 Making consists of more than 2 units - it's just repeting the same thign over and over. Lead on right, select loco on left, consist. Select third loco on left, consist button, select 4th loco on left, consist. As many as you want. It's potentially slightly more complex on the Zephyr console since you only have the one throttle.

                   --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Sunday, June 28, 2015 9:22 PM

My system must have been too old. The DT400 was suposed to have been upgraded but I never tried it. The one time I did look into it, I could not find whether or not I needed to upgrade anything else. I just stuck with what I knew.

South Penn

South Penn
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Posted by CSX Robert on Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:34 PM

SouthPenn
And, you can't do consisting in radio or infa-red, you must be tethered to the system. Same with programing.

Not true with the duplex radio, you can do anything with duplex that you can do plugged in.

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, June 28, 2015 7:35 PM

Pathman

I'm not sure I agree with the suggestions to read the manuals at first, beyond perhaps the quick start section if there is one. Figure out a way to get the throttles in your hands, even if it means a road trip.

My choice was easy to make. I had narrowed it down to NCE or Digitrax based on research. As soon as I looked at the face of the throttles the answer was obvious. NCE's layout was clear and easy to follow. Digitrax made my eyes cross for reasons already stated in previous posts i.e too many small, identical buttons and poor display.

However, that was my own personal choice and I made it primarily because I'm all thumbs and I hate steep learning curves. I have no problem what so ever with anyone who likes their Digitrax system. That was their choice and I admire their ability to master their throttles. They can probably all play guitars too. I can't - I tried!DunceSmile, Wink & GrinLaugh

I have to admit that I find South Penn's observations about his experience with both Digitrax and NCE to be rather reassuring. (Edit: See South Penn's post two down about the age of his Digitrax system - the comparison might not be apples to apples).

Once again, it's what is best for you. Get your hands on some throttles!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Guy Papillon on Sunday, June 28, 2015 2:13 PM

rrinker

  the Digitrax manual starts right off with VERY SIMPLE instructions to connect the wires to the track and exactly which buttons to push to make your first loco move. No gobbledygook engineering terms. 

I don't know anything about Digitrax but a look at the first 4 pages of the NCE Power Cab instruction manual (very short text in bold letter) will get you started in no time at all.

I agree that you should look at instruction manuals and decide what seems better for you. You can't go wrong anyway. 

Guy

Modeling CNR in the 50's

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Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, June 28, 2015 2:04 PM

Welcome to the Forum !

I will assume your question is sincere, for often the subject has come up and deteriorated into a flaming battleground. 

Almost everyone (all?) that have DCC will tell you their's is best and the only way to go.  Your local hobby shops will tout what they sell, as will magazines, etc.

The good news is there are only a handful of popular players out there, and each has their points.  When I was looking to get into DCC it came down to the two major players (in the USA), and frankly either would have served me well.  I ended up with using one company for their system components, and the other for decoders.  All have worked out just fine.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by SouthPenn on Sunday, June 28, 2015 12:26 PM

When I sent my DT400 to Digitrax for the radio upgrade it was supposed to be upgraded to the latest and greatest. ( 18 months ago?? ) By this time I had just programed all the decoders in my consist to the same address. My consist are permanent. ( ABBA, ABA, AB ) All units are powered. The only dummy on my layout is me.

South Penn

South Penn
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Posted by JoeinPA on Sunday, June 28, 2015 12:05 PM

SouthPenn

Don't know anything about your Zephyr system, but with a DT400 throttle, making and and breaking a 4 unit consist is an exercise in futility.

And, you can't do consisting in radio or infa-red, you must be tethered to the system. Same with programing.

South Penn

 

Take a look at the DT402D and the duplex system?

Joe

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Posted by jalajoie on Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:58 AM

i am afraid this thread will turn ugly soon.

 

Jack W.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:58 AM

Don't know anything about your Zephyr system, but with a DT400 throttle, making and and breaking a 4 unit consist is an exercise in futility.

And, you can't do consisting in radio or infa-red, you must be tethered to the system. Same with programing.

South Penn

South Penn
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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:38 AM

 Peopl;e love to say that. I on;t know if you've compared the manuals lately, but the Digitrax manual starts right off with VERY SIMPLE instructions to connect the wires to the track and exactly which buttons to push to make your first loco move. No gobbledygook engineering terms. Maybe the 15 years ago version was like that, but my Zephyr is now about 13 years old and the very first bit of the manual is exactly that, a SIMPLE quick start. I've read the current NCE manuals - before they get you started, they go one about a bunch of stuff you don't need to know just to get it hooked up and running. Digitrax saves that for AFTER you have a train running.

 ANd consisting, complex on Digitrax? Select lead loco on right throttle, Select second loco on left throttle, press Consist button. Wow, that was hard....

                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by SouthPenn on Sunday, June 28, 2015 11:11 AM

I recently replaced a Digitrax Super Empire Builder with radio with an NCE Power Pro with radio. It's the best thing I have done for my layout in years. It is like day and night. It's now fun to run my trains again.

Look at the throttles. The digitrax is cluttered with a lot of small buttons and labels that are hard to read. The display is small and hard to read. If you go with Digitrax radio control or infa-red, start buying batteries by the bushel. The only way to shut the throttle off is to remove the battery. If you forget, the battery will be dead overnight.

My sugestion would be to down load the instructions for the throttles you are considering and check them out. ( good luck with Digitax manual. It was written for electrical engineers by a 8 year old who's primary language is Swahili )

Also check the instructions for making and braking a consist. The difference between Digitrax an NCE is jaw dropping.

As mention earlier reading back what setting is in a certain CV can really be helpful. NCE reads the settings, the Digitrax doesn't.

I am now in the process of removing all the Digitrax auto reversers with their vintage 1960's relay and manual adjustments.

If you decide on Digitrax, PM me.

South Penn

 

South Penn
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Posted by jalajoie on Sunday, June 28, 2015 10:47 AM

davidmbedard
The answer is clear.....MINE!
 

Very true David, I will add both of mine because I own both Digitrax and NCE.

Jack W.

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