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Bi-color LEDs - what's the story?

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  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Mount Vernon WA
  • 968 posts
Posted by skagitrailbird on Saturday, June 13, 2015 3:00 PM

With regard to toggle position vs turnout points position, I too, generally have the toggle point the way the main line or primary route goes rather than normal (straight) vs diverging. That is, if the main route goes through the norpal points position then normal will be green. But if it goes through the diverging route normal would be red.

Note I said "generally." I have some Tortoise powered turnouts the points of which may be thrown from two or more places around the layout. Just like the household light switches at either end of a hallway, for these turnouts the toggle position says nothing about the position of the points. Operators must pay attention to the LED's on the panels to determine the points position.

I might also note that I decided to use two bi-color LED's for each turnout location on my panels-one in each of the routes in/out of the turnout. One will be green and the other red and they switch color when the points are thrown.

Roger Johnson
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Posted by peahrens on Saturday, June 13, 2015 2:09 PM

MikeyChris
peahrens - I like your use of the LED's on your control panel. As for the toggles that control turnout position, what convention do you follow for the direction of the handle? I was considering using the "up" position for "normal" and the down position for "reversed", but didn't know if that would be confusing (even to the guy that built the panel). For example, if the normal route happens to be shown on the control panel as going in a direction (relatively) down compared to the reverse route, wouldn't that be confusing. I'm still pondering this one.

There's probably a convention for that but I just did what I felt would make sense to me.  I have the bi-color LEDs indicate green for straight through and red for divergent position.  Similarly, on curved turnouts the straighter or more divergent positions.  For crossovers, green indicates straight for the pair and red the crossing position.  

On the toggles, I generally have them set for up/down (one may be slanted) such that the handle is pointed in the direction of the switch position as shown on the schematic.  That's a distinction versus the actual turnouts in some cases, such as in the yards where a turnout on the schematic may appear to be right hand but actually be left hand.  Of course the turnout types were laid out for the best use of space, but if the schematic showed them accurately (right versus left) the schematic would be screwy (and certainly take more room).  I'm quite used to the system.  

As an aside, I added on-layout switch indicator lights (in one direction) on my mainline turnouts.  These are redundant to the related light on the panel for those turnouts.  I did it partly for fun, and partly for ease in glancing at a particular turnout when running trains to readily note whether the turnout was in the straight or divergent mode.  It's helped prevent some derailments.  I had used Tortoises with undertable 5-position barrier strips for the switch motor power (2 wires) and the frog powering (3 wires) using one pair of Tortoise aux contacts.  The on layout indicators use the other Tortoise aux contacts. Since I wanted disconnect points (barrier strips) I would have been better off using 8-position strips in the first place as I had to add 3 positions later for this add-on.  

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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  • From: Chi-Town
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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, June 13, 2015 1:02 PM

I have sanded the clear 3mm/5mm warm white LED's with 180 grit sandpaper and it gives them a disfused look and light dispersion. Never had to try the colors.

Also got many Led's from China with resistor's....little longer wait...but well worth it in the long run...havn't had a bad one yet.

Last month...I purchased 10 double arm warm white SMD street lites with 1/4w risistors included...for the price that they are asking for one similar fixture here. They are plastic and brass made, great detail also....from a place I found on E-bay.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by MikeyChris on Saturday, June 13, 2015 12:01 PM

My thanx to all for the info and comments. I am always happy to learn stuff. In this case, a couple of things. I wondered what the "water clear" color was. Thank you skagitrailbird for that. Of course, I read that AFTER I had ordered the LEDs (and of course they were water clear).Stick out tongue Also thanx to RR_Mel for your comments and info. I too have bought a few things from eBay sellers in China, and never (yet) had any issues. One side note on these fella though. There are some sellers that offer some neat optical sensor (printed circuit) boards that I thought I might be able to use on my layout. I forget the price, but they were very inexpensive, already assembled and might be great for model railroad use. However, when I asked them if they came with schematics, they politely told me they were proprietary and therefore did NOT come with schematics. Well that reduces their value to me because I may need to modify them and it would nullify their advantage of being timesavers. Bummer.

As far as wvaelength of the emitted light, that can be had from the manufacturer's data sheet (many available online for free). Of course, with these LEDs from China, that data is probably not available. I was just wondering if anyone had any particular recommendations.

peahrens - I like your use of the LED's on your control panel. As for the toggles that control turnout position, what convention do you follow for the direction of the handle? I was considering using the "up" position for "normal" and the down position for "reversed", but didn't know if that would be confusing (even to the guy that built the panel). For example, if the normal route happens to be shown on the control panel as going in a direction (relatively) down compared to the reverse route, wouldn't that be confusing. I'm still pondering this one.

Lastly, MisterBeasley I agree, the stuff from China (at least some of it) gets here very quick. I am still bewildered at how they can sell 4 bucks worth of LEDs and ship them for free, and make any money at that. I'm not a "conspirist" but their government has to be subsidizing that somehow.

Again, thank you all for your help!

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Posted by peahrens on Saturday, June 13, 2015 9:30 AM

I used 5mm 2-leg bi-color (red/green) LEDs on my control panel for turnout indication. These were LED-6 from All Electronics.  With them, I used the front piece of HLED-4, a 2-piece mount, for the front finish in the control panel hole. The LED fits in nicely with friction alone.  My panel is aluminum sheet.  The LEDs were 50 cents, the mounts 12 cents.

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/led-6/bi-color-led-2-legs/1.html

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/hled-4/two-piece-led-clip-for-5mm-t-1-3/4/1.html

 

 

I see they also have a 3mm (T1) LED, but it's 3 leg type.  I liked the simplicity of wiring the 2-leg to the DPDT toggles.  

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/led-67/t1-red/green-led-3-legs/1.html

 

I've purchased resistors and some LEDs from Hong Kong or China via EBay as well (for stucture and loco lighting).  I've never had a failed shipment, but never know how long a wait, usually 2-3 weeks.  I always check the seller's rating; i.e., if lots of shipments and 99% favorable I go with it.  I'm amazed one can get 50-100 resistors at less than $2 considering the item, packing, shipping.  Easy if not in a hurry and you're sure you understand what type you will get; e.g., "warm white" LEDs.

 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, June 13, 2015 8:34 AM

I've ordered power supplies from China and I'm amazed at how fast they get here, even with free shipping.  I watch the tracking numbers and they seem to get to California in a couple of days, but most of the shipping time is due to the USPS.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 5:15 PM

MikeyChris
1) are they available in different wavelengths (affects displayed color)? If so, what is the preferred wavelength for best color rendition of a railroad signal?

the color of LEDs depends on the material.  You can't expect any shade of red.   If you can figure out the wavelength or wavelengths of the railroad signal, you can see if LEDS are available at that wavelength.

MikeyChris
2) I have had good luck buying other LEDs, toggle switches, etc. from Chinese firms through their eBay stores. However, the prices on these things are too good to be true - so... e.g. 50 pieces for under 8 bucks (free shipping, albeit slow). Can anyone vouch for these companies?

it's amazing how less expensive things are from China (where they are manufactured).   I've never been dissatisfied, although it may take a while to ship.   One package didn't arrive on time and after a couple extra weeks i contacted them and they refunded my money ($4).   I placed another order with someone else and later received the original package.  They were happy i agreed to repay.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by skagitrailbird on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 4:58 PM

I forgot to mention: pay attention to water clear vs. diffused. The water clear LED's emit a very bright, almost intense light. I found them distracting for use on my panels. I switched all of them out for these described as difused. The surface of the dome looks slightly frosted and it significantly reduces the intensity of the light. If still too bright more resistance can be added to dim them down a bit.

Roger Johnson
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:25 PM

 
I’ve bought bi-color LEDs both from China and State side, 2 and 3mm with success.  I‘m not too impressed with bi-color LEDs for tri-color searchlight signals.  The amber or AC input to the LEDs has a bit of red and green on the edges.  Looking straight on they appear amber but off angle one side or the other is there is either a slight red or green tint.  I have tried rotating them and that help a little but I guess they’re better than nothing.  The bi-color LEDs work great for polarity indication!  I use 3mm for wrong polarity warning indicators on my control panel for my turnout wyes to prevent an oncoming train hitting the wrong polarity.
 
I buy my LEDs either from allelectronics.com, led-switch.com State side or any China eBayer, never got a bad batch yet. Over the past couple of years I’ve had very good luck on eBay buying LEDs of all kinds, they also have warm white LEDs that work great for headlights.  Roger is right about the slow boat from China.  Allelectronics and led-switch both deliver quickly by USPS Priority Mail.
 
As far as color goes I can't tell the difference between any of the LEDs I’ve bought, red is red and green is green.  There is a big difference between bright white and warm white.  Bright white looks great for diesel headlights and warm white for steam.  I use warm white for both, diesels of the 1950s era weren’t halogen.
 
 
Mel
 
 
Modeling the SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
  • Member since
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  • From: Mount Vernon WA
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Posted by skagitrailbird on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 2:10 PM

MikeyChris,

  1. I don't know about different wave lengths. The answer is probably yes but I don't know how you would find out which ones are X wave length and which are Y wave length. And How would one know how much the color changes for each unit of wave length difference? In ingnorance I have purchased several colors of LED's and some of the 3mm two pin red/green LED's and have never been disappointed with the colors.
  2. I have purchased all of mine through various ebay sellers in China with no problems other than it take three or four weeks to get them. Knowing that I bought a bunch of different colors and have them on hand to use at a moment's notice.
  3. I do not have experience with those firms but all are known to be very reliable. My ham radio electrical engineer brother-in-law has purchased from Mouser for years.
Roger Johnson
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    January 2001
  • From: US
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Bi-color LEDs - what's the story?
Posted by MikeyChris on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 1:03 PM

Hello,

I have been searching for some 3 mm 2-pin (leads) bi-color (red/green) LEDs (mainly for Tortoise switch motor indicators, but also for search light signals). I was wondering if any of you fellas had any experience with these things. I have played with them, but it was back in the '80's. Specifically, I was wondering:

1) are they available in different wavelengths (affects displayed color)? If so, what is the preferred wavelength for best color rendition of a railroad signal?

2) I have had good luck buying other LEDs, toggle switches, etc. from Chinese firms through their eBay stores. However, the prices on these things are too good to be true - so... e.g. 50 pieces for under 8 bucks (free shipping, albeit slow). Can anyone vouch for these companies?

3) Has anyone got experience buying bi-color two lead 3 mm LEDs from other sources (e.g. DigitKey, Jameco, Mouser, etc.)?

Thanx for the info.

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