Returning to the hobby after an extended absence (typical reasons), I find that everything has changed and DCC is replacing the old DC block wiring. Since I hate wiring and plan a solo operation, I am pretty sure I want to go with DCC. I have no old equipment so conversion is not an issue.
What advice could you give someone that is starting from scratch in terms of MRR equipment and DCC knowledge?
I understand there are competing DCC systems out there that may not be compatible. How does that affect my purchases? Is everything compatible except the throttles or do I need to watch what locomotives I buy as well?
Also, I am aware that Kalmbach has a book on the subject. Normally most Kalmbach books are very well done and recommended. However, I have to pause on that since technology changes so rapidly, a book may not be up to date. Any recommended reading?
Once you have used DCC you will never look back.
The various manufacturers use different approaches in their systems resulting in no compatibility of the command stations (think power pack) and the throttles (hand held controller) and how the two communicate. But all DCC systems send the same types of signals through the rails and all makes of decoders are compatible with each other. What this means is that you can't use a Brand B throttle on a layout using Brand A's system. But you can run any brand decoder equipped locomotive on any brand system. Yes, you should watch what locomotives you buy, not because of compatibility, but for quality. Some of the lower priced locomotives have decoders in them that are limited in thier features.
As for reading it is hard to say exactly what is best for you not knowing where you are in the learing process. That said, everything you ever wanted to know about DCC can be found at this web site;http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn2/DCC.htm
Some of it is a bit technical but there is a tone of info there. Kalmbach has two books you might want to consider but both are pretty basic. They are The DCC Guide and Basic DCC Wiring.
The former will help you decide which system is for you. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. I would recommend you stick with systems from CVP, Digitraxx, Lenz or NCE. Each of these makers has a starter system that can be expanded over time if your needs increase. Other systems tend to be of lower quality, have fewer features and have limited, if any, expandability.
I personally favor systems from NCE because I found them to be more intuitive to learn and the main throttle was more comfortable in my hand than others. But find out what systems are used by other modelers and clubs in your area. If you have the same system as they do they can be your support team and you can use your throttles on their layouts.
MJ4562What advice could you give someone that is starting from scratch in terms of MRR equipment and DCC knowledge?
You say you hate wiring but DCC still requires quite a lot of wiring. Not as much as DC block control, though.
If you use sectional track, more wiring might be required, that is, feeders. Sectional track does have continuity issues at times.
Three foot sections, not as many feeders.
I have seen #16, #14 and # 12 buss used to connect from the base station to the feeders. Depends on size of layout and how many locos you want to run.
My layout uses #18 for buss. I have only run three locos. I use manual turnouts.
Some use DCC controlled turnouts.
Turnouts with metal frogs also.
Don't forget reverse loops and crossovers.
There are three companies that use wireless digital control. Battery and decoder in the loco.
No track wiring needed. No, it is not DCC.
DCC is the NMRA's version of digital control of model trains.
No idea if they sell the locos with the battery and decoder installed yet.
Bachmann will be marketing a digital control system that uses a smartphone sometime this year. I believe they will be selling the locos ready to go. Time will tell.
Digital control of model trains is evolving quite rapidly. Electronics are shrinking and batteries are improving a lot.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Thanks for the responses so far, please keep them coming.
richg1998 Bachmann will be marketing a digital control system that uses a smartphone sometime this year. I believe they will be selling the locos ready to go. Time will tell. Digital control of model trains is evolving quite rapidly. Electronics are shrinking and batteries are improving a lot. Rich
"Hate" was too strong a word. I'm okay with wiring but it's a means to an end for me, not something I enjoy.
So in other words, it would be foolish to collect locomotives in anticipation of building a functioning layout? Sounds like it makes more sense to build the layout and then shop for equipment.
Bachmann has some decent DCC equipped locos with sound. They use SoundTraxx but some features are stripped out compared to the SoundTraxx decoder you buy and install.. Might now bother you though. Lower cost way to go if you want sound without a hassle of doing an install yourself.
LokSound and TCS are both good sound decoders also.
They have the Spectrum line and sound value line. Good prices at on line stores also.
The last I knew, the non sound are low end Lenz with many replace with a quality non sound decoder.
Last I knew, Athearn also had on board sound with a few features stripped out. No idea if that has changed.
BLI has good non sound and sound locos also.
If you can control your urges to buy any locomotives until you build your layout you have much more self control than many of us. It is OK to but locos in anticipation of completing the track & wiring. Just do your research and don't buy anything where the decoder has so few features you will be disappointed when you finally try to run it.
I have no first hand experience with Bachmann DCC on board locos nor with locos with MRC decoders. But I often read someone else's tale of woes. Decoder equipped locomotives from BLI, Walthers, Athearn Genesis, Kato and BLI generally have pretty good decoders in them. Better yet, buy DCC ready locos and decoders separately and install them yourself. It may cost a few dollars more but you will almost certainly wind up with a better decoder. Decoders from NCE, Digitrax, Lenz and TCS are all good. For sound look for Soundtrax Tsunami or QSI Titan.
MJ4562 What advice could you give someone that is starting from scratch in terms of MRR equipment and DCC knowledge? I understand there are competing DCC systems out there that may not be compatible. How does that affect my purchases? Is everything compatible except the throttles or do I need to watch what locomotives I buy as well? Also, I am aware that Kalmbach has a book on the subject. Normally most Kalmbach books are very well done and recommended. However, I have to pause on that since technology changes so rapidly, a book may not be up to date. Any recommended reading?
All DCC systems and DCC locomotives are compatible.
Forget books. In this case, they fill shelves. Learn as you go and ask questions on this forum, but make those questions specific to the issue.
Alton Junction
MJ4562 Thanks for the responses so far, please keep them coming. "Hate" was too strong a word. I'm okay with wiring but it's a means to an end for me, not something I enjoy. So in other words, it would be foolish to collect locomotives in anticipation of building a functioning layout? Sounds like it makes more sense to build the layout and then shop for equipment.
Not at all. There aren't a whole lot of current production locos for my prototype and era - most of the ones I have are older production equipment. I have many that date to before when DCC was even a thing. There are very few locos you can't put DCC in after the fact. So don;t let that stop you from buying the locos you desire for your layout. If there's an older loco that you need to make your dream layout a reality, just get it.
With the usual cautions about really old stuff with non-RP25 wheels that won't work well on Code 83 track, etc - but you'd have the same problem with or without DCC.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The rolling stock and locomtives you pick now will help determine the curve radius of the track and size of the switches on the layout. Do not use the minimum radius track curves for the rolling stock and locomotives as they do not work well or look good on the smaller radius curves and switches. I do not enjoy the wiring, but if you are building a large layout run 12 or 14 ga. wire as feeder wire under the layout and connect it to the track every few feet with small gauge wire. The reason for the 12 ga. is the line loss of power on long runs from the power source.Track planning and smooth construction make all the difference in the enjoyment of operation.
MJ4562So in other words, it would be foolish to collect locomotives in anticipation of building a functioning layout? Sounds like it makes more sense to build the layout and then shop for equipment.
Not necessarily.
Although technology moves fast, it's acceptance in this hobby does not. DCC did not catch on until there was a standard defined and compatible equipment was available from multiple manufacturers.
Depending on your goals, collecting the equipment can be a time consuming task. I for example will need 100+ N&W 100 ton hoppers when my layout goes operational. I started collecting 2 years ago and I'm up to 60 with different numbers.
Another point in favor of collecting is that looking at that locomotive on the shelf that you can't wait to run can provide the motivation you need to get that wiring done.
Most everybody has some requirement of the hobby they consider "work". Like you, mine is wiring. All work and no play makes even MR a dull hobby. Collecting is fun - even if you can't run anything yet. It's nice to take a break from the drudgery now and then and build a kit, do some research, or renumber some hoppers.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
No book necessary. Go to the Litchfield Station web site and click on the "DCC University" tab, then "Curriculum".
http://www.litchfieldstation.com
When building your layout, get a buzzer from Radio Shack and a nine volt battery. Connect it across the input wires to the layout. As you lay track it will buzz if you inadvertently create a short. It has happened to some when they were nearly finished the layout or as they modified, expanded the layout.
If you know how to shop on line, you can find some bargains for non sound or sound locos. Ebay will be a gamble.
The Favorite Spot sells new locos on ebay, bid or buy it now. I have bought from them. Reliable. Rolling stock also.
River City RR sells MDC Roundhouse kits on ebay, plus project cars. Unpainted rolling stock. Add trucks and couplers.
Ebay can be good for rolling stock. Has for me.
Others can suggest on line stores.
I operate solo using the NCE Power Cab. I can run three HO sound locos with no problem. Doubt you will run more than three at a time.
The DCC power does not run anything else.
On books or not, I think it's a matter of preference. Once I was pretty sure I knew I would go ahead (third layout of the lifetime) I bought the DCC Guide and found it summarized the basics to my liking. I skimmed the chapters on converting locos to DCC, figuring that could come into play later if I bought any DC locos, and focused on understanding the systems and overall wiring. When I got into things, I bought a 5A system for my 5' x 10' layout plan, two throttles (considering grandkids) and bought a DCC diesel (Athearn Genesis DCC sound GP9) to test try things out.
I had to learn about turnout wiring, and that's where (for me) the detailed sites like wiringfordcc.com came into play. All went well, including lots of supplemental info on forum threads...old ones I found or new ones when I asked a question.
After about 1-1/2 years, I started buying locos I wanted that were not available with DCC and/or sound, so got into the conversion area. For instance, I liked a Kato RS-2 (UP) and started with a TCS motor only plug in decoder, simple. And their website has photo descriptions of some installs. Since then I've enjoyed taking on any diesel that strikes my interest, and figuring out how to add decoders with sound. It's a fun part if you want to get into it.
Thus, I'm all for books, the forum, websites, etc. One step at a time.
Oh, when deciding on a system, I had narrowed it to two (Digitrax or NCE) and then found a conversation with Tony's Trains most helpful. I went with my leaning on NCE, but the conversation was most helpful in understanding what other system features I needed and options for them, specific to my planned layout needs. For instance, there's lots of sub-district circuit breakers that don't need to be by the system vendor, and depending on your layout demands, some may be preferred (or have unneeded features) versus others.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
First, welcome back to the greatest hobby. I too returned a few years ago and found myself needing to convert to DCC.
I think we need a little more info from you in regards to how big a layout you plan to build and what type of locomotives and rolling stock you will primarily be using. If you have a layout design and can give some particulars about it they would help also.
There is always a difference of opinion on which DCC system to use/buy and what the best brands of locomotive are. These are generally limited to a handful of brands and everyone has reasons for why they chose the one they did. As far as I can tell, most all DCC systems are very good.
As already mentioned, it doesn't matter which brand loco you buy, they all work with any DCC system. As for buying locos and rolling stock, I would buy whatever suits my fancy (within recommended brands) and meets your budget. I have taken years to build my layout and roster and now find myself replacing engines and rolling stock with better (either more detailed or better performing models) as I can afford to.
Good luck with your empire and don't be afraid to ask ANY questions here on the forum. You will always get more answers than you may have expected and there are a lot of very experienced, knowledgable model railroaders here to help. I would not have gone to DCC if this forum wasn't so helpful.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
farrellaa I think we need a little more info from you in regards to how big a layout you plan to build and what type of locomotives and rolling stock you will primarily be using. If you have a layout design and can give some particulars about it they would help also.
Plans help to know because it's better to start out with a system that has abilty to expand and grow such as NCE or Digitrax - both have lower cost starter sets but ability to grow into systems with much larger capacities, for example. Those two systems, by consensus are the two most popular out there - best way to evaluate is to try them out if you can, say at local clubs, and test drive. NCE most say are a little easier to learn, Digitrax is a bit more techie, but many like them as well.
There is always a difference of opinion on which ... and what the best brands of locomotive are.
In general, you get what you pay for. Most engines manufactured in the past 15-20 years have a DCC plug in them making the "plug and play" or DCC friendly, older than that and you may need to do some extra work. Some, usually sound equipped, come with DCC built in. It will usually say so on the box or the web site if you buy online - prices are accordingly higher.
There may be opinions but the consensus is that Atlas has always been tops for quality in HO (and N). Athearn has always been a staple with a few lemons here and there; their Genesis brand are higher cost but with lots of details and occasionally you do have to return one. Athearns RTR line has offered some surprisingly nice engines with nice details, but some are very basic as well - the Athearn RTR line seems to cover a range from basic to fairly detailed - some are DCC ready and others, like the GP40-2 need preparation - so read the details.
KATO tops for running qualities although detail was good, they were surpassed by Genesis and even Proto 2000 and others in the past 10 years.
Bachmann costs alot less and you get what you pay for - in the olden days they were cheap and poor quality; in the past 6 years or so the newer manufactured are significantly better runners and have nicer paint jobs, but aren't generally very accurate in terms of following prototype.
The older Life Like Proto 2000 have DCC plugs and often will have cracked gears that will need to be replaced - they drop in - not difficult. The new Proto 2000 line is now sold/made by Walthers and is about twice the price of those sold under the Life Like name and have been upgraded and have improvements made. Proto 2000 loco's generally have nice detail and often some prototypical details too.
N-scale I don't know about if thats your scale.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I'll mention something about the actual decoder.
If you're new to DCC, avoid any decoder that is not considered to be "silent running". When I first ventured into DCC a few years ago, I went for more basic decoders without the silent running feature and I was stunned, absolutely stunned, as to the buzzy noise level a lot of the earlier decoders made at slow speeds. I couldn't understand how any company could let a product get to market with the level of noise they made, and yet, they were commonplace in the early days. And still, I think all nonsound Bachmann locos equipped with a factory decoder still have this buzz problem. Amazing.
- Douglas