What did you do before DCC? This whole idea that locos MUST run in perfect lockstep or they will not consist correctly is, in the words of the immortal Sherman Potter, Horse Puckey. I mena, I guess if you don;t want to see so much as a coupler spring jiggle when running two locos together - be my guest. That level of precision doesn't add anything, it just takes a whole bunch of time. Obviously you do not want one loco spinning its wheels when the other hasn't even begun to move. I'd rahter just use a good decoder with good motor control and not have to fuss with them to make them start smoothly and run through the throttle range without odd jumps or anything - which is why I use the TCS and Loksound decoders. None of my locos with those decoders has need much of any adjustment, and then only using 3 step tables, specifically just CV2 so they all start together. I don't fool around with 28 step speed tables, there's no need. I don't and won't use decoders that don't support CV2-6-5. Mixing BEMF and non-BEMF decoders - that's going to take a bunch of fiddling as well. It's not worth it to me to save a couple of bucks and buy the lesser decoder.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
davidmbedardRandy...you do realize that after you calibrate that golden locomotive, it's performance will change with time and every Loco that you match to ot will also be affected by its' wear and tear? It's better to calibrate to an unchanging external meter. Just saying.
Yes, but so are all your other locos - so if you really want things THAT tightly calibrated, you're going to be spending all your time calibrating. Either running every loco through the timing tunnel, or updating the 'golden' loco and recalibrating all the rest against it, over and over. Ends up the same in the end.
I also question 'modern' locos changing that much - how much runnign does this take (maybe not much if you never actually maintain them), because I have 2 of my P2K Geeps that get more running than anythign else I own, mainly because they are my primary power at club shows, where they run for hour long sessions at a time (and I don;t think I've ever turned them around so they circle the mostly just giant oval the opposite way to even the wheel, flange, and driveline wear). Yet my other two, which never got more than a few laps of my 10x13 spare room layout, still run right along with the high mileage ones. I'll buy that things do change, they have to, any part in friction with another part will wear over time. But I'll also say I think this takes years, not weeks or even months, for it to be enough to be noticeable. Measured with a device that can read tenths of thousands of seconds - I'd say you'll see a difference across multiple runs made on the exact same day, back to back.
maxman I understand the $70 thing. But I believe that you are missing the point. The goal was not to determine the scale speed as a loco passed by a particular point. The goal was to adjust the scale speeds along 28 points on a speed curve, and to do this for multiple locomotives so that they will run with each other to the satisfaction of the owner.
I understand the $70 thing. But I believe that you are missing the point. The goal was not to determine the scale speed as a loco passed by a particular point. The goal was to adjust the scale speeds along 28 points on a speed curve, and to do this for multiple locomotives so that they will run with each other to the satisfaction of the owner.
It's not like I'm not capable of missing the point of any conversation at any time of the day; but, in this instance I'm not missing anything.
We are talking about personal choice: I discussed how I determine a loco's speed using a simple time/distance calculation; or, you can throw money at the question.
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Okay, my head hurts.
I count one one thousand, two one thousand as a 40 foot box car goes by a telephone pole. I figure one second is about 35mph. Is that close enough?
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
You do realize, i assume, that you only need to do this for one loco in your fleet, and then calibrate all the rest against the one 'gold' unit which can be done visually without timing it or using speedometers or speed tunnels. That's why, among other reasons, people are recommending the simple two measured points and a stop watch type of thing over an expensive specialized apparatus. It's one of those DCC Truisms, that just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you HAVE to - eyeballing speed matching is plenty close enough. Two or three locos together with a train behind them do a pretty good job of evening out the pull amongst themselves unless they are WAY out of whack, like on speed step 20, one is trying to go 80mph and the other is only going 30. If one's going 40 and the other 45, it's still fine, they will work together anyway.
Although it is quite simple to calculate, I have more fun using this App for the iPhone. And it is free.
Very easy to use. It is like a stopwatch but with the reading in mph (or km/h) in whatever scale you choose.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
NP2626 gmpullman maxman davidmbedard Speed tunnel..... Apparently you can lead them to water, but......... Maybe a link would help the uninitiated: http://store.sbs4dcc.com/ModelRailroadTechnologiesAccutrackIITrainSpeedometer.aspx Have Fun! Ed Maybe, like me, $70.00 for that item, is more than people want to pay to determine somethings as simple as scale speed! You can lead a horse to water; but, horses are notoriously poor folk, who likely won't cough up $70.00 for a glass of water!
gmpullman maxman davidmbedard Speed tunnel..... Apparently you can lead them to water, but......... Maybe a link would help the uninitiated: http://store.sbs4dcc.com/ModelRailroadTechnologiesAccutrackIITrainSpeedometer.aspx Have Fun! Ed
maxman davidmbedard Speed tunnel..... Apparently you can lead them to water, but.........
davidmbedard Speed tunnel.....
Apparently you can lead them to water, but.........
Maybe a link would help the uninitiated:
http://store.sbs4dcc.com/ModelRailroadTechnologiesAccutrackIITrainSpeedometer.aspx
Have Fun! Ed
Maybe, like me, $70.00 for that item, is more than people want to pay to determine somethings as simple as scale speed! You can lead a horse to water; but, horses are notoriously poor folk, who likely won't cough up $70.00 for a glass of water!
I can multiply and divide using pencil and paper, or I can use a calculator. The speed tunnel is for expediency. If someone wishes to speed match multiple locos, the speed tunnel will very quickly become an appreciated item.
I'm just the messenger! I only provided the link for the convenience of fellow forumites that may not be familiar with "Speed tunnel...".
I use this handy calculator to time my engines between two white push-pins which are 100" apart:
http://www.stonysmith.com/railroad/speedcalc.asp
Aside from the cost of the computer and internet service, and maybe a nickel for the two push pins, it's a bargain!
Enjoy, Ed
davidmbedardSpeed tunnel.....
I used a stop watch and distance. 10 feet in 10 seconds ~60MPH. I did most of mine with speed tables and JMRI software. I read on this forum sometime ago about setting top speed then locking in. Low speed and lock that in then setting the slope. Mid speed and lock in and maybe some minor adjustments. Took a little practice but it worked OK.
On the prototype, 60 mph is 88 ft/sec. 30 mph is 44 ft/sec. 70 mph is 103 ft/sec. On an HO model, the scale is 87.1. That is darn close. I marked off scale ft increments on our club layout, and we use that for speed matching(and we just use a cheap watch). You just have to be close.
I normally set my max speed(CV5) for 70 mph, and mid speed(CV6) for 35 mph. If you are using a Tsunami decoder, you will need to create a custom speed table.
Speed is actual - There is no 'scale seconds'....
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
retsignalmtr A prototypical train, moving at One MPH travels 1.467 ft per second. Thirty MPH = 44 ft per second (rounded off). A train of 300 feet in length would travel 300 feet in around 6.8 seconds. Using scale feet to determine scale speed, do you also have to use scale seconds to be accurate? How do you measure scale seconds?
A prototypical train, moving at One MPH travels 1.467 ft per second. Thirty MPH = 44 ft per second (rounded off). A train of 300 feet in length would travel 300 feet in around 6.8 seconds. Using scale feet to determine scale speed, do you also have to use scale seconds to be accurate? How do you measure scale seconds?
No. 300' is 300' in 1:1 or in 1:87. That is I am counting six 50' cars. That builds in the difference between the scales.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
You need to time Scale seconds? You need a scale stop watch....
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
Subway cars of LION are 50' long.
Subway trains of LION are 6 cars long. Ergo 300 feet.
LION built a table based on the time it takes six 50' cars to cover 300 feet.
It works in HO, it is the same in the 1:1 world. LION can look out of the train room window at the BNSF (nee NP) mane lion and using a stop watch can count off six cars and the knwo the speed of the train. The LION can tame a six car train on the layout of him as it passes say a signal mast, and then know the speed of it.
Falcon Ridge Starting to speed match my fleet of locomotives. Wondering what others use, speedometer, stop watch or just trial and error? Thanks Slim
Starting to speed match my fleet of locomotives. Wondering what others use, speedometer, stop watch or just trial and error?
Thanks
Slim
Look below. This is model railroading, not rocket science.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~trains/rroperat.htm#sp
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.