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My first DCC hardwire gone wrong...need guidance. EDIT: FIXED...

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My first DCC hardwire gone wrong...need guidance. EDIT: FIXED...
Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 12:42 AM

I just hardwired my first decoder into a Proto 1000 Budd RDC-2. I cut the traces at the "X"s like it shows, wired the colors like I saw on the internet (probably the wrong choice) and the mechanical soldering looks great. Problem is, It runs forward on forward and forward on reverse. (Digitrax DT-400 throttle, clubs...not mine.)

I have it at the club so it's not here at home to look at. And I only ran it on address "3". Never reprogrammed (yet.)

Any ideas what I did wrong? Club meets on Tuesday, so I have all weekend to mull it over.

Thanks for any suggestions, questions, solutions, ideas or directions to point.

Mark C. Oroville, CA

Edit: TCS T1 decoder, if it makes a difference. Maybe I picked the wrong decoder...

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, March 13, 2015 1:41 AM

Mark,

There are two solutions. Best is to pull the shell and swap the power leads coming from the trucks on the existing decoder, the most likely culprit here.

The other solution is to reprgroam the Directional setting in the decoder.

 

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 2:16 AM

mlehman

Mark,

There are two solutions. Best is to pull the shell and swap the power leads coming from the trucks on the existing decoder, the most likely culprit here.

The other solution is to reprgroam the Directional setting in the decoder.

 

 

Thanks Mike,

I''l try that. Never have programmed a decoder either...time I learned, I suppose.

After looking at the video again, I saw that he used a 7-wire JST decoder, not the 9-wire. He used a TCS MC2 and I used a T1. I wonder if the color-coding in a 7-wire harness and/or decoder is different than a 9-wire.

Anyway, I'll try your way first since I've jumped into DCC with both feet now. Can't unring the bell as they say!!!!

MC

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, March 13, 2015 2:26 AM

Mark C:

I just want to make sure that you stated the problem correctly. You said:

softail86mark
It runs forward on forward and forward on reverse

Is that actually the case, i.e. that it runs forward only, or did you mean that it runs 'forward on reverse and reverse on forward'? If the direction of movement is simply backwards then the problem, as Mark R. said, is easily solved. However if it will only go forward then something else is wrong.

If you would, please confirm the accuracy of your quoted statement so we can properly address the problem.

Thanks

Dave

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Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 4:04 AM

hon30critter

Mark C:

I just want to make sure that you stated the problem correctly. You said:

 
softail86mark
It runs forward on forward and forward on reverse

Is that actually the case, i.e. that it runs forward only, or did you mean that it runs 'forward on reverse and reverse on forward'? If the direction of movement is simply backwards then the problem, as Mark R. said, is easily solved. However if it will only go forward then something else is wrong.

If you would, please confirm the accuracy of your quoted statement so we can properly address the problem.

Thanks

Dave

 

Yes Dave,

Forward only. I'm thinking wrong decoder but I haven't checked the 7-pin vs. the 9-pin theory yet. That is, is the 7-pin color coding the same as the 9-pin color coding (minus the green and violet wires, of course.)

Thanks for asking. Keeps me thinking on possible problems. And/or solutions...

MC

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 13, 2015 5:24 AM

softail86mark

I just hardwired my first decoder into a Proto 1000 Budd RDC-2. I cut the traces at the "X"s like it shows, wired the colors like I saw on the internet (probably the wrong choice) and the mechanical soldering looks great. Problem is, It runs forward on forward and forward on reverse. 

I don't see how that is possible.  The direction of the motor is controlled by the orange (P1) and gray (P5) wires.  If those two wires are reversed, then the motor direction is reversed.

But, if the motor only goes forward, or only in reverse, no matter which direction is selected on the throttle, that doesn't seem possible to me unless something else is realled screwed up.  Even re-programming CV29 will not solve that particular problem.

If you hardwired the TCS T1 decoder exactly as shown in the diagrams on the TCS web site, the loco should surely perform as expected.

I will be interested in how this problem is resolved.

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, March 13, 2015 7:31 AM

 Color codes are the same with the MC2 and T1, there are just less function wires in the 7 pin connector.

 I have looked at those P1K boards before. And that is why I always just remove them. The install is not difficult - you will have 2 wires coming from each truck, these go tot he red and black wires. You will have two wires coming from the motor, these go to the orange and grey. You will need to replace the headlight with an LED and resistor, this goes to the blue and white wires. No traces to cut, no issues with oddly configured boards or a board that may have a wiring problem. It just works. Miss cutting one of the traces, or not get it all the way cut through, can result in a smoked decoder. Avoid the hassles.

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by CGW121 on Friday, March 13, 2015 8:48 AM
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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, March 13, 2015 10:18 AM

Thinking way outside the box .... are you sure the direction button on the throttle was working correctly ?

Never experienced this before !

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 13, 2015 10:26 AM

Mark R.

Thinking way outside the box .... are you sure the direction button on the throttle was working correctly ?

Never experienced this before !

Mark.

 

Doggone it, Mark, you took the words right out of my mouth.  My thought precisely.  Something is acting up on the throttle.

Rich

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Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 11:55 AM

rrinker

 Color codes are the same with the MC2 and T1, there are just less function wires in the 7 pin connector.

 I have looked at those P1K boards before. And that is why I always just remove them. The install is not difficult - you will have 2 wires coming from each truck, these go tot he red and black wires. You will have two wires coming from the motor, these go to the orange and grey. You will need to replace the headlight with an LED and resistor, this goes to the blue and white wires. No traces to cut, no issues with oddly configured boards or a board that may have a wiring problem. It just works. Miss cutting one of the traces, or not get it all the way cut through, can result in a smoked decoder. Avoid the hassles.

                 --Randy

 

 

Thank you Randy,

I'm thinking the traces didn't get cut properly.

Mine is 1-truck drive, so only the one pair of wires.

Do you suggest just staying with the T1 decoder and pulling the existing PCB? What do I do with the yellow wire?

MC

Edit: Never mind...yellow to rear light (Duh!!!!)

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Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 12:03 PM

richhotrain
 
Mark R.

Thinking way outside the box .... are you sure the direction button on the throttle was working correctly ?

Never experienced this before !

Mark.

 

 

 

Doggone it, Mark, you took the words right out of my mouth.  My thought precisely.  Something is acting up on the throttle.

 

Rich

 

Mark R. and Rich,

That never dawned on me. Good call. The throttle I was using was one that had been damaged (accidently) by getting pulled forcefully out of the Loconet RJ12 socket and had to be repaired. I used to be a telephone guy, so I put a new connector on the coiled wire (thinking "I'm a professional. How could this go wrong?")

I will certainly test that next club meeting.

MC

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Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 12:09 PM

CGW121

CGW121,

Thanks for that. I had seen that and forgot about it. It looks as if he just cut the green and violet wires right off at the connector. Maybe I'm getting a short through one or both of those wires touching something on the PCB. They're not stripped back but that doesn't mean just a hint of wire isn't contacting something.

I'll look closer.

MC

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, March 13, 2015 1:12 PM

rrinker
 I have looked at those P1K boards before. And that is why I always just remove them.

I follow Randy's lead here. I remember several L-L boards requiring the PC board X cutout. I nearly always just remove the board completely and start with bare wires.

Gives you more room, too.

But in the case of my three RDCs I electrically bypassed the PC board but left it in place so I could attach the interior LEDs to it. I used inverted cone warm white to simulate ceiling lighting.

IIRC I just drilled several holes through the board and stuck the LEDs through.

I'll be interested to see what the outcome of this problem turns out to be!

At least with an RDC it looks OK wether it's coming or going Confused Ed

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Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 1:19 PM

gmpullman
 
rrinker
 I have looked at those P1K boards before. And that is why I always just remove them.

 

I follow Randy's lead here. I remember several L-L boards requiring the PC board X cutout. I nearly always just remove the board completely and start with bare wires.

Gives you more room, too.

But in the case of my three RDCs I electrically bypassed the PC board but left it in place so I could attach the interior LEDs to it. I used inverted cone warm white to simulate ceiling lighting.

IIRC I just drilled several holes through the board and stuck the LEDs through.

I'll be interested to see what the outcome of this problem turns out to be!

At least with an RDC it looks OK wether it's coming or going Confused Ed

 

Yeah, but mine is always coming, no going...Whistling

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, March 13, 2015 3:18 PM

MC

Vewy intewesting!

One way to find out if the problem is in the decoder itself is to remove the original board entirely and hard wire the decoder. If you really do want to keep the original board in place for mounting lighting, as was suggested, you can just route the decoder wires around it.

Dave

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Friday, March 13, 2015 7:58 PM

Another vote for "it's the throttle, not the decoder."

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, March 13, 2015 8:14 PM

Or two throttles.    On some systems, if there are two thottles set to the control the same channel number, the loco on that channel will only go in one direction.

Do you have two throttles on the system?

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Posted by softail86mark on Friday, March 13, 2015 11:20 PM

Texas Zepher

Or two throttles.    On some systems, if there are two thottles set to the control the same channel number, the loco on that channel will only go in one direction.

Do you have two throttles on the system?

 

TWO?????

There's at least 10!!!

Again, good call. I'll reprogram the decoder at the next meet.

Thanks...

MC

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, March 14, 2015 12:43 AM

At this point, I wouldn't bother doing anything further with the engine until you can verify everything is acting properly with the throttles. Might be just wasting your time tearing all apart for no reason .... but then, maybe not !

Mark.

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Posted by softail86mark on Saturday, March 14, 2015 6:04 PM

Mark R.

At this point, I wouldn't bother doing anything further with the engine until you can verify everything is acting properly with the throttles. Might be just wasting your time tearing all apart for no reason .... but then, maybe not !

Mark.

 

Will do Mark (or won't do as the case may be!!)

Thanks guys (and/or girls)

I'll post here on Tuesday night and let you all know what happened.

All your suggestions and resolves will be accounted for, until a resolution is reached.

I'll be back (in my best Arnold accent)

Mark C.

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Posted by softail86mark on Wednesday, March 18, 2015 4:47 AM

Texas Zepher

Or two throttles.    On some systems, if there are two thottles set to the control the same channel number, the loco on that channel will only go in one direction.

Do you have two throttles on the system?

 

Okay folks,

Here's the fix to the problem with the one way decoder.

Texas Zepher had it dead on. There was another engine on the club layout programmed to number 3 and therefore another throttle programmed to number 3.

I simply reprogrammed the engine to another number and BOOM, everything worked fine. Now I have to bulletproof the track because it is old and spotty on the power. Even cleaning isn't the solution, although it helps.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions, especially Texas Zepher for getting it right.

Mark C.

Oroville California

P.S. I just read another post about a guy looking for a reasonably priced fleet decoder. I used a T1 and turned the throttle to 1 and started to move. Unbelievably good low speed performance.

Carry on 

WP Lives

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