I recently got what appears to be an upgraded Bachmann HO DCC on board GP7. I have several of the earlier type, and I believe these had an 8-pin socket and a Bachmann branded plug-in decoder, which I've heard is a low-end Lenz. The more recent loco also has separate brake cylinders on the trucks, while those on the earlier loco were cast on. The new version does not have an 8-pin socket but has a decoder integral to the PC board. Overall, the new version decoder seems to be much quieter, so this is an upgrade (unless you wanted to swap out a decoder with an 8-pin plug.)
If I put the loco on the programming track, the new loco says it's manufacturer 101, version 046. The older version also says 101-046. However, I definitely notice a difference in sound level (i.e., no buzz, not expecting actual diesel sound) and throttle response between the two.
Is anyone aware of documentation on the new version decoder? For instance, I'm wondering if this is actually something from SoundTraxx without sound, so it may be missing features like Vmax, etc.
My experience with the Bachmann forum suggests this may be a better place to ask these questions. Any help would be appreciated -- but I very much appreciate Bachmann's continuing improvement!
According to the NMRA list, http://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/appendix_a2c_s-9.2.2.pdf, 101 is a Bachmann decoder. So it is either something that Bachmann makes/has made, or something that someone else makes but is embarrased to admit.
So far as what the decoder features are, didn't the loco come with decoder instructions?
I have belonged to the Bachmann forums for sometime. The decoder is low end Lenz.
You can see the complete decoder board at the Bachmann website.
Many just seem to refuse to investigate the Bachmann website.
NCE makes the Bach-DSL decoder with wired LED's to replace this poor decoder.The Bachmann reps remove anyone mentioning the NCE replacement decoder board.
Check the NCE site. The complete PDF is there.
You Tube has some installs about he Bach-DSL decoder.
You can Google it also.
Now the Sound Value line have decoders made by SoundTraxx.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I swear bachmann must have gotten them for free or nearly free - it's been years since anyone, even the more obscure decoder makers, have sold anything that does not have a high frequency 'silent' drive. The Lenz decoders they are based off of was discontinued by Lenz years ago.
On one hand, it's nice they come with a decoder, but on the other hand, having one that runs somewhat poorly and makes noise does nothing to impress people when they try DCC for the first time.
The really bad is - have you looked at how much they sell them for seperately? I guess it makes the loco with decoder seem like that much more of a deal if people think the decoder is worth $50. That's getting into sound decoder price levels.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
In May 2012 I bougnt a Bachmann GP9 with DCC onboard. It was pretty noisy and I was not able to bring it to an acceptable slow speed. Following an advise from Randy, I changed the decoder for the NCE Bach-DSL decoder and was really satisfied with the results. Few months ago I bought a second Bachmann GP9 to mue with the first one, being prepared to change the decoder.
To my surprise, this second loco was much more less noisy and I was able to acheive a slow starting speed almost as slow as with the NCE decoder. I speed matched both locos and mued them together without problem. The new loco is a little bit noisy but not enough to plan to change that decoder.
I don't know if Bachmann fixed things or if I was lucky. Nevertheless, I now have a pair of good running GP9s that can be mued together to haul heavy loads.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
I bought a GP7 earlier this year and am very pleased with it. I looked at the forums and did not see any listings for cv values, not a big deal but it would be nice. What I really want to change is the acceleration, again not a big deal. It runns quiet and smooth.
CV3 is acceleration and CV4 is deceleration. The higher the value, the longer it takes the loco to accelerate or decelerate. Try a value of 10 to 20 for each one. Joe
I just recieved some Bachmann GP7s in the Maroon Minuteman paint scheme .A very nice job on the paint scheme.These are DCC equipped nonsound.I run all DC engines except for a few Bachmann sound equipped diesels which of course run on the dual mode decoder as DC with limited sound features. The big issue for me is due to the decoders in the new Minuteman units is the higher starting voltage which is an issue with my DC powered engines.So I removed the decoders and installed better LEDs with resistors .and I run them as DC units. They perform very well this way. So I think you should have a very good drive train for your DCC.
The sideframes have cast on cylinders from what I can tell ,I will check them after the silver paint dries. Iam going to renumber these engines to units that did not have the train lighting box on the long hood rear end. it is easy using some care to scrape the numbers off with a chisel tip xacto blade.
Ron High
An eaier way to remove the numbers. Scalecoat makes a paint remover for plastic models. I 've used isopropyl alchahol (91%) to remove the numbers on Bachmann locos. Use a cotton swab to moisten the number and let it set for about 10 minutes.Wipe the area dry and use an eraser to reomve the numbers. You may have to do this a few times. Joe
Hmm, maybe they ran out of the old ones, if the new ones are still made by Lenz they are probably a variation of the current Lenz low end, which does have high frequency drive. Good to know they at least improved things.
Again, it's a complete redo. The PC board looks a lot like the SoundTraxx Sound Value board in the sound locos. There is no longer an 8-pin socket. I don't think Lenz has anything to do with these.
One problem is that this ought to be a straightforward question-answer on the Bachmann forum. In fact, there has been continued steady improvement throughout the Bachmann line (just don't expect Genesis quality at bluebox prices, which is completely reasonable). But if I post specfic questions like what model numbers reflect such and such an upgrade, I just get a vague PR-massaged response.
It's puzzling to see on forums people stuck in a perception that Bachmann is pancake motors and 4-wheel power trucks from the 1970s -- a couple of posts like that here, in fact. I think it's partly Bachmann's fault that they don't make their continued improvement more clear, on their forum, in their ads, in the way they influence editorials in the press, etc.
No different than Proto 2000 vs Life Like's train set junk. Bachmann still makes train set level products, which compared to the Spectrum line are pretty much junk. I don't know that LL ever really turned around that perception, leading to them having to sell out.
Unfortunately, about the only Bachmann steam loco that fits my prototype was one of the old pancake motor ones. Then again, my ex father in law had a pair of the Spectrum GP-30's and BOTH of them, fresh out of the box, had paint chips off the side of the cab. And the E33 Electric he bought - well, it was really nice actually, once I cleaned off all the grease that had oozed all over the inside plastic carrier and threatened to get all over the finish. It wasn't done oozing even after I cleaned the excess off the gearboxes - next time it was put away and then brought out, the bottom of the tray under the trucks again was full of grease. Nicely detailed and painted though, and it ran nice and quiet - needed the cool white LEDs replaced with golden whites, which I did when I put a decoder in it. Limited sample, but it would appear the Spectrum steam locomotives are much better made than the diesels.
I can't completely understand the bashing of Bachmann for selling buzzing decoders. Didn't all companies sell buzzing decoders when the technology was first developed, yet people bought them anyway? Frankly, I can't figure out how the technology ever got popular in the first place. If I would have spent good money then on a decoder equipped loco, only to have it buzz when ran at low speeds when I brought it home, I would have thrown it in the trash. I would have never bought a second one.
Yes, buzzing locomotives was an incomplete advancement in technology that never should have had a place in the history of the hobby. I hope it is gone forever.
- Douglas
Depends on the motor, too, some are more sensitive to teh buzzing. Keep in mind most DC power packs that did pulse power ALSO sent 60 hz pulses to the motor - same buzz!
DCC started in earnest what, 95-96 time frame? High frequency decoders were more the norm probably before 2005, only some companies were still selling the older ones - not really sure why other than to generate a reason for pricing the non-buzzing ones that much higher (Lenz, mainly), as all NCE production has been silent running for a LONG time, as has Digitrax. 2005 is when I bought my Zephyr,a dn every decoder I bought was silent running, there was no other option, from Digitrax or NCE or TCS. The SOundtraxx LC and DSD series decoders, the sound decoders before Tsunami, were NOT silent running, which is why the one I had was in a dummy B unit with no motor (also more room for a BIG speaker). To be selling a non-silent decode now is just ridiclous, which is why Bachmann gets bashed over it - especially when you sell the decoder seperately and ask $50 for it! Yes, list price, but still - compare list price of the far superior TCS decoders.
One factor may be the inductor and capacitor network Bachmann puts in their locos, supposedly for RF emission reduction. It filters out high frequencies. ANd interferes with BEMF reading, so I guess there was no reason for them to use a better decoder. When you put a better decoder in, they often work poorly unless you have at least removed the capacitors from the circuit. My 44 tonner, the newer 1 motor version, was an instant short on DCC without a decoder, but it ran fine on DC, and with a decoder it runs fine on DCC. It's the only loco I ever tried to run with address 00 that shorted my entire system. Must be the capacitors and inductors.
JOHN BRUCE IIIThe PC board looks a lot like the SoundTraxx Sound Value board in the sound locos. There is no longer an 8-pin socket. I don't think Lenz has anything to do with these.
You know, we can beat this "it looks like a ? decoder" and "why aren't you looking at the Bachmann site for info" thing all day. I looked at the Bachmann site for the GP7/9 parts and it appears that they say the decoder board is a PCB01. Looking that up, I found these pages: http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_625&products_id=1337, and http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=1337.
If your board does not look like this, maybe it would be helpful for you to post a picture of what you have for comparison.
And reading back through the thread, it is unclear if you purchased this loco new or bought it from someone else. I did ask if you had received any instructions with the loco concerning the decoder. Since you didn't answer that either someone forgot to put the instructions in the box originally, or the previous owner changed the decoder out and didn't include the ner instructions.
maxman JOHN BRUCE III The PC board looks a lot like the SoundTraxx Sound Value board in the sound locos. There is no longer an 8-pin socket. I don't think Lenz has anything to do with these. You know, we can beat this "it looks like a ? decoder" and "why aren't you looking at the Bachmann site for info" thing all day. I looked at the Bachmann site for the GP7/9 parts and it appears that they say the decoder board is a PCB01. Looking that up, I found these pages: http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_625&products_id=1337, and http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=1337. If your board does not look like this, maybe it would be helpful for you to post a picture of what you have for comparison. And reading back through the thread, it is unclear if you purchased this loco new or bought it from someone else. I did ask if you had received any instructions with the loco concerning the decoder. Since you didn't answer that either someone forgot to put the instructions in the box originally, or the previous owner changed the decoder out and didn't include the ner instructions.
JOHN BRUCE III The PC board looks a lot like the SoundTraxx Sound Value board in the sound locos. There is no longer an 8-pin socket. I don't think Lenz has anything to do with these.
For starters, that's not a decoder - that's a DCC Ready motherboard. The decoder plugs into that 8-pin socket ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
If the decoder has an 8-pin plug, it could be from two different sources. If it has a black shrink wrap, it's the now defunct basic Lenz decoder. If it has a clear shrink wrap, it is the now defunct ESU LokPilot Basic decoder.
ESU has been making products for Bachmann for a while. Bachmann's Dynamis DCC controller is made by ESU and uses the exact same (albeit dumbed down) wireless controller as their EcoS system.
Mark R.For starters, that's not a decoder - that's a DCC Ready motherboard. The decoder plugs into that 8-pin socket ....
I suppose my point was that it was suggested that the OP investigate the Bachmann site to get his question answered. I looked at the site for GP7/9 parts and that was the only board I found. I was unable to see any place where parts for the with or without DCC onboard items were differentiated. Plus for a msrp of $45 one would think that would be the cost of a low end decoder.
Anyway, what I was trying to do was for someone to come up with a picture of what the Bachmann decoder looked like, and for the OP to post a picture of what his decoder looked like, so that some knowing individual could look at them and say "oh, what you have is a ? decoder". Otherwise everyone is just guessing.
After writing in this thread that the two Bachmann locos I have perform differently and after reading the other posts, I wanted to know if there was any significant difference with the decoder. Here is what I found :
Decoder removed from de loco bought in May 2012 (first release for this loco in CNR livery):
Decoder still in place in the second release for the same loco (bought in October 2013) :
Exactly the same PCBs and decoders.
I know there has been a third release in late 2014 or early 2015 but I can't comment as i didn't try one.
What I know for sure though is that I got differents results with two specimens of the same decoder. One was unusable as is and the other offers an acceptable performance.