Yes, smaller usually = more $$
I have some of the Proto S1's, I want to see if a full size T1 fits in them. I think actually it might, though the M series would be easier, and I might even get the M series with keep alive in there.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker M1 is smaller, only has wires, MC2 has a small 6 pin connector so you can remove the decoder, or solder the wires on with the decoder safely stored away. There's plenty of room for either. My Bachmann 44 tonner has an MC2. --Randy
M1 is smaller, only has wires, MC2 has a small 6 pin connector so you can remove the decoder, or solder the wires on with the decoder safely stored away. There's plenty of room for either. My Bachmann 44 tonner has an MC2.
sounds good. Pricing them out, surprisingly the MC2 seems a bit cheaper? must be the smaller size of the M1. at any rate, looks also like they can be bought in multi-packs as well, so I'm thinking there's at least a five pack in my future.
rrinker Got to get you over your block, its not hard to put the MC2 in that S2. Fire up that soldering iron! Stop worrying and learn to love the solder! --Randy
Got to get you over your block, its not hard to put the MC2 in that S2. Fire up that soldering iron! Stop worrying and learn to love the solder!
lol yer' a funny guy. But you're exactly right, if I'm going to do the other 8 or so of these that I still have, the MC2s are going to be how it will get done. The soldering doesn't bother me, plus I've gotten real comfortable tearing engines apart in the past couple of days. Are there any differences that matter between the M1 or the MC2??
Quick followup to the TCS warranty claim, turned out the decoder was faulty and had a short circuit somewhere. As it has been discontinued, they gave me the option of substituting an M1 or MC2 decoder, with LEDs and resistors for the lights; or they could try and repair the AS6 board, which they candidly admitted they might not be able to do.
I asked if they would consider simply subsituting another decoder, so I could do a quick plug-and-play install on something else. They said sure! and so they are going to swap it out for an LL8 decoder which I can drop into one of my Proto 2000 GPs.
Very nice folks to deal with, I have to say. Great warranty as Randy says. I'll be happy to continue installing their decoders as I move along through my engine roster.
rrinker Check for any place where traces on the decoder might touch the metal of the loco frame. Loom mainly at teh traces for the track pickups, since it was an instant short, there may be a blob of solder or something connecting the two rail pickups by mistake. Compare with one of the working ones. Goof-Proof warranty though, no matter who's fault it is, you get a new decoder. --Randy
Check for any place where traces on the decoder might touch the metal of the loco frame. Loom mainly at teh traces for the track pickups, since it was an instant short, there may be a blob of solder or something connecting the two rail pickups by mistake. Compare with one of the working ones. Goof-Proof warranty though, no matter who's fault it is, you get a new decoder.
I thought of that and looked it over pretty well, even with an Optivisor close up I didn't see anything obvious. At any rate I filled out the warranty form online and sent it off this morning.
Other good news is that I got the one NCE ATLS4 decoder that I was able to get in today's mail, and found another good set of installation photos online at http://dieseldetailer.proboards.com/thread/6585/atlas-ho-decoder-install-pics . That guy did his installation on a Roco S-2, so I pulled out one of mine and did the install this afternoon. Came out perfectly, hardest part was bending the leads for the rear light LED.
Some pics--this was a nice custom paint job that a friend of mine did for me over 20 years ago, long before anyone was commercially selling RTR versions of the pre-war LV paint scheme. That friend has since passed away, so the engines that he did for me have some special value for me. Anyway, the Roco install was identical to the Atlas/China installation of the TCS decoders, so that's good to know.
gloom, despair, agony on me
deep dark depression, excessive misery
if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all
gloom, despair, and agony on me!
He-haw
rrinker On the TCS web site they say that decoder is temporarily out of production because it is being updated. So you might find short supply of that one as well. --Randy
On the TCS web site they say that decoder is temporarily out of production because it is being updated. So you might find short supply of that one as well.
That's not good!
Successfully installed two out of three AS6 decoders tonight. Wouldn't you know it, the first one I tried threw a "short circuit" message on the first engine I tried; took it off, tried it on a second engine, same short circuit message. Took it off, installed a new, second decoder on that second engine--worked perfectly. Tried the first decoder again on a third engine--same short circuit message. Took it off, installed a new, third decoder on the third engine--again it worked perfectly.
So I'm going to get to try out TCS's warranty, unless anyone has any ideas of where I went wrong with the first decoder. I did each installation exactly the same, which is what leads me to suspect that the first decoder had something wrong with it.
maxman JimT nope, that didn't happen: Dear JamesWe do not have this item in stock: 524-113 Our inventory was incorrect on our website...not sure if it was due to human error or sticky fingers. We apologize and are sending you a refund for the total amount in the mail in the form of a check. Sorry about that. They are normally pretty good about only advertising items they have in stock.
JimT nope, that didn't happen: Dear JamesWe do not have this item in stock: 524-113 Our inventory was incorrect on our website...not sure if it was due to human error or sticky fingers. We apologize and are sending you a refund for the total amount in the mail in the form of a check.
Sorry about that. They are normally pretty good about only advertising items they have in stock.
hey, not your fault!! I just think it's funny that I keep striking out on the NCE decoder. No worries, I just got three of the TCS decoders in the mail today, so that will get me started on some of them right away, and I'll chew on whether to do sound or not on some of the ones I like the best.
I took them all out of cold storage last night and fired them up on the DC test track. They all continue to run like Swiss watches, 20 years after they were put away. One or two of them will need some cleaning, but mostly they were all in good shape. Oh, and I discovered one I didn't know I had--actually a duplicate road number of LV 158. Same paint scheme, one of them was weathered and the other one not. I don't remember weathering one of them and I don't remember buying the other one. They just were magically there somehow.
JimTnope, that didn't happen: Dear JamesWe do not have this item in stock: 524-113 Our inventory was incorrect on our website...not sure if it was due to human error or sticky fingers. We apologize and are sending you a refund for the total amount in the mail in the form of a check.
JimT JimT maxman Did you try here: http://www.mainlinehobby.net/product/23236/524-113-ATLS4-DECODER-ALL/ ? Maxman, thanks for this! I'll check tonight to see if they have them in stock and how many. appreciate your finding that for me. Jim Well, I cleaned them out of THEIR last one as well. They only had one. At this rate I will clean out the NOS of every dealer in America. If anyone can find any other ones out there from your favorite online dealers, let me know, I could still use 3-4 more. It also turns out that one of the dcc S-2s I've picked up along the way (Erie) had the NCE ATLS4 decoder installed, and it runs really well.
JimT maxman Did you try here: http://www.mainlinehobby.net/product/23236/524-113-ATLS4-DECODER-ALL/ ? Maxman, thanks for this! I'll check tonight to see if they have them in stock and how many. appreciate your finding that for me. Jim
maxman Did you try here: http://www.mainlinehobby.net/product/23236/524-113-ATLS4-DECODER-ALL/ ?
Did you try here: http://www.mainlinehobby.net/product/23236/524-113-ATLS4-DECODER-ALL/ ?
Maxman, thanks for this! I'll check tonight to see if they have them in stock and how many. appreciate your finding that for me.
Jim
Well, I cleaned them out of THEIR last one as well. They only had one. At this rate I will clean out the NOS of every dealer in America.
If anyone can find any other ones out there from your favorite online dealers, let me know, I could still use 3-4 more.
It also turns out that one of the dcc S-2s I've picked up along the way (Erie) had the NCE ATLS4 decoder installed, and it runs really well.
nope, that didn't happen:
Dear JamesWe do not have this item in stock: 524-113 Our inventory was incorrect on our website...not sure if it was due to human error or sticky fingers. We apologize and are sending you a refund for the total amount in the mail in the form of a check.Please review the attached receipt.Thank you for shopping with us at Mainline Hobby Supply!
I'm pretty much giving up on trying to find the NCE decoders and will stick with the TCS ones.
Alright, I'm a glutton for punishment. Before calling it quits tonight, I decided to take apart one of the undec Atlas Roco units to see what's inside. As far as I can tell, everything is the same as what is shown on the installation page at TCS: http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Atlas/S1_AS6/atlas_s1_switcher.htm
Photo of my unit below and frame taped off to insulate it.
So as far as I can tell, when I get the TCS and NCE decoders tomorrow, I should be good to go.
Dave, thanks for that, I'll try them too.
Randy, you're right, I've got to get to the point where I don't need the special decoder. But I'll have one each of the TCS and NCE decoders in hand tomorrow and will see how they go. I'll likely be back for more advice.
According to their web site these guys have two NCE ATLS4s in stock now. I haven't a clue if that is correct but you might give them a try.
http://dccinstallsandsales.com/product_info.php?products_id=52
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
You just need to leard to hard wire a decoder. Then you'll never want for a special type ever again. It's not such a big deal on these S2s since they are pretty simple, but other locos that come with directional constant lighting for DC have much more complex circuit boards in them. SUre, it has an 8 pin socket to plug in a decoder - it MIGHT work. Some have circuit traces you need to cut to use the plug-in decoder option. But if you strip all that junk out, you'll have 2 wires from each truck, and 2 wires to the motor. Extremely easy to figure out.
The integrity of the speaker enclosures is indeed cruicial. Pearhens discovered that when he tested a recent install without the enclosure completed. The horn sound was horrible (my words).
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/243678.aspx
(To get the link to work, highlight it, then right click on it, then select 'Open Link' or words to that effect from the drop down menu.)
Something to note which is contrary to standard speaker/enclosure practise is that the diaphragm in the sugar cube speakers points to the inside of the enclosure, and the enclosure apparently works best when it is glued firmly to the shell.
Ok, got it--thanks again Randy. I'll have to open up the Roco and China locos tonight to see what I'm dealing with, good also to know about the BEMF feature on the more recent decoders. I'll get back on the TCS site and study the M2 decoder and installation instructions. Really appreciate the advice on this, a little confusing keeping the two releases separate, but I think I'm getting it straightened out in my head now.
On a separate note . . . just wait til I start asking you folks for advice on converting my brass camelbacks over.
The TCS A series won;t be a drop in fit in the Roco version S2. You would want the M2 and do a hardwire install, the link is the one I posted, but it can also be found on the TCS web site under HO Installs, Atlas.
The TCS decoders have BEMF, which is one of the major differences in cost.
Reformed Grownup Litchfield Station has the NCE ATLS4 in stock. https://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=524113
Litchfield Station has the NCE ATLS4 in stock.
https://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=524113
well, as it turns out I got the last one they had--I ordered five, but they were down to one. So . . . maybe I will be doing more sound installations than I had originally planned. If anyone knows of any other sources for the NCE decoder, let me know--they were considerably cheaper than the TCS AS6, not that that's a huge deal breaker for the TCS ones.
Dave, thanks for the detailed response and for the photos as well. The sugar cube speakers look great, in reading over the SBS pages it looks like the main challenge is getting a tight seal on the sound chamber more so than getting them to fit or wiring them up. They are also not as expensive as I thought they would be (not sure what I was expecting), and appreciate the link to Digi-Key as well.
Let me get a couple more 'simple' installs under my belt and then I'll be ready to take a stab at a sound installation. thanks!
JimT
In the original thread under General Discussion your last question was regarding speaker choices. I have put sound in four P2K S and SW switchers. I put the speakers in the roof of the cabs in each case. For the first couple of installs I used small oval speakers with the enclosure modified to fit the shape of the cab roof. The speakers show a little bit but they are really not glaringly obvious:. The second picture shows the speaker because of the camera flash but under normal lighting they don't stand out:
More recently I have switched to so called 'sugar cube' speakers, also known as iPhone5 speakers. There is space in the cab roof to mount two of them. They sound quite a bit better than the old style speakers. Here is some information on them. Note that if you are using two speakers that the ohm value changes to either 4 ohms if wired in parallel or 16 ohms if wired in series. Make sure your chosen decoder can handle those impedence values if you are going to install a pair:
http://sbs4dcc.com/sugarcubespeakers.html
Make sure you read the Application Notes and Installation Recommendations, especially the parts about speaker enclosures:
http://sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/sugarcubespeakernotes.html
http://sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/wiringmultispeakers.html
While I would like to support Bryan at Streamlined Backshop, the iPhone5 speakers can be purchased here for much less:
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=21&y=17&lang=en&site=us&keywords=423-1203-ND
The key difference between these and the P2K version is that the motro in the P2K has a plastic end cap, so that bottom brush does not touch the frame of the motor, so a nylon screw is not required on those, just a piece of tap to keep the brush cap from contacting the loco chassis. I've not tried it, but it looks like the P2K motor should just drop in. Of course, where are you going ot get P2K motors? It might be possible to insualte the brush holder, which accomplishes the same thing as insualting the whole lower motor frame and using the nylon screw. That's an alternative.
JoeinPA Jim: The thread in the motor is metric but you can use either the Kadde screw or a nylon 2-56 screw. I used nylon screws for my S2s and they worked well. Although they are not metric they will screw into the hole on the motor and hold very tightly. Joe
Jim:
The thread in the motor is metric but you can use either the Kadde screw or a nylon 2-56 screw. I used nylon screws for my S2s and they worked well. Although they are not metric they will screw into the hole on the motor and hold very tightly.
Joe
great, that's good to know. I've got Kadee 2-56 screws but not sure I've got any of the nylon ones, I'll have to check. but thanks for this.