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DCC conversion not working well

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  • Member since
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  • 383 posts
DCC conversion not working well
Posted by Billwiz on Sunday, February 15, 2015 7:33 PM

I did a hardwire installation of an NCE decoder (D13SR) in a Walthers Trainline loco.  When I check it on program mode (NCE Powercab), it shows the decoder.  When I run on DC it runs.  When I try to run on DCC, it doesnt move, but the motor tries to start.  I pulled the motor out of the engine body and it does move, but not fast enough.  It is like it needs more "power".  Any suggestions?  

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Posted by Billwiz on Monday, February 16, 2015 4:49 AM

I did not perform "due diligence".  I followed someone elses article on the conversion on the same loco and used the mfg. chart to select the decoder.  

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 16, 2015 5:17 AM

So, what is going on?  Is the decoder OK?  How about the loco motor?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Billwiz on Monday, February 16, 2015 5:52 AM

When I put the loco under DC, it runs.  Under DCC it kinda jerks, but doesnt move. So I took the motor out of the assembly and ran the DC - it runs fine.  I put it onto the DCC track and it spins very slowly, not fast enough to move the loco.  

I've reset the decoder to factory specs (didnt really change anything in the first place, but wanted to reset just to be sure). 

DCC system works fine with other locos.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, February 16, 2015 6:03 AM

Billwiz

When I put the loco under DC, it runs.  Under DCC it kinda jerks, but doesnt move. So I took the motor out of the assembly and ran the DC - it runs fine.  I put it onto the DCC track and it spins very slowly, not fast enough to move the loco.  

I've reset the decoder to factory specs (didnt really change anything in the first place, but wanted to reset just to be sure). 

DCC system works fine with other locos.

 

I don't understand what you mean by "I took the motor out of the assembly and ran the DC".   Do you mean that you removed the decoder?

In any event, it sounds like you damaged the decoder.  

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by NP2626 on Monday, February 16, 2015 6:29 AM

davidmbedard
How many amps did the loco pull during stall before you hardwired the loco?

 

I can see there being some justification for an amperage draw check, if things are not working out (which is Bills case) however, in 13 years of installing decoders, I have never felt it to be an absolute necessity.  You follow the instructions and everything works out.  If he had access to someone installing a decoder in the referenced locomotive, checking amperage draw is not necessary.  All things being equal, he should expect the same result.
 
My recommendation would be to buy and install another exact same decoder and if this fixes the problem, send the failed decoder back to the factory.  If this is a very expensive decoder, talk to the factory about what you should do.  It's always best to ask the manufacturer about a problem with their products.  Asking here will garner some caustic, sometimes down right nasty and not helpful comments, for some reason!  

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

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Posted by Billwiz on Monday, February 16, 2015 7:23 AM

NP2626
 It's always best to ask the manufacturer about a problem with their products

 It's always best to ask the manufacturer about a problem with their products

That's the plan.  I came to the forum because I have read good info - and would not have attempted the install prior to reading this forum.

The decoder is still attached - I left enough lead wire to be able to remove if necessary - this loco is my training unit, so I can learn from my mistakes.  I was able to disconnect the drive shafts and hold the motor in my hands while applying power - that is how I know it turns.  

Thank you everyone for your comments.  

 

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Posted by NP2626 on Monday, February 16, 2015 7:29 AM

Bill, Does the decoder have a plug that would allow disconnecting the decoder from the wiring harness?

(I have sent you a PM).

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 16, 2015 7:30 AM

 Do a reset on the decoder. Set CV30=2 on the program track. Sometimes things are just scambled. Poor motor running can be just the kick start and torque compensation not set correctly, with a reset it will all be back to factory defaults which should run without too many hiccups - it might still need to be tweaked for best slow speed running, but it should at least move somewhat normally through the speed range.

 I haven't seen a Trainline loco yet that didn't run well at slow speed or had a motor that drew too much current for a 1.3 amp decoder. In fact I specifically purchased (used) the FA's I have because in the MR review of them, they ran a scale .5 mph on pure DC as the slowest continuous speed. At under $30 they were steals.

                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by cacole on Monday, February 16, 2015 7:46 AM

What DCC address are you trying to use.  The dafault address should be 3.  If you have tried programming to a long address, you need to also set CV29 so the decoder will recognize that address.

How are you trying to run the locomotive on DC after installing the decoder?   NCE (the PowerCab) does not support DC operation, but the decoder should be dual-mode by default.

 

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Posted by Billwiz on Monday, February 16, 2015 7:53 AM

Thanks for the suggestions.  I will try them later this week (won't get much train time before Saturday, if at all), and report back.

Bill

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, February 16, 2015 9:04 AM

Do you have a meter?  Check the voltage across the motor terminals as you ramp up the speed on DCC, using DC volts.  It should go from zero up to around 12 volts going to the motor.  To check track voltage or input voltage to the decoder, use AC volts.  DCC isn't true AC, but it's close enough to get a reading on a meter.  The decoder provides DC voltage to the motor.

EDIT: I had the voltage flavor wrong going to the motor.  Silly me.

Don't have a meter?  Get one.  They are very cheap at Harbor Freight and places like that, and what you'll get for under $10 will be perfectly adequate for model train work.

If you've got a small 16-volt bulb, like one from Minatronics used for structure lighting, you can use that as a makeshift voltmeter, watching the brightness as you bring the speed up.

How are your soldering skills?  You might try redoing the connections.  A cold solder joint, for example, could lead to poor performance.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, February 16, 2015 9:10 AM

 Unfortunately, D13SR = no plug, D13SJ = 9 pin plug. Which is why in the early days I was using the D13SRJ and not the SR as my 'go to' motor only decoder. Probably the cheapest and best non-BEMF decoders - at the time the 10 pack put them at under $12 each. I put them in everything.

              --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Billwiz on Monday, February 16, 2015 1:52 PM

I was able to sneak downstairs for ten minutes and reset everything and we are in business.  It is now running.  Thanks everyone for your input.

 

Bill

 

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Posted by NP2626 on Monday, February 16, 2015 1:54 PM

Great!  Good this worked out for you.

NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"

Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association:  http://www.nprha.org/

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