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Brake squeal on ESU LOKsound

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  • Member since
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Brake squeal on ESU LOKsound
Posted by farrellaa on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 8:14 AM

I just installed an ESU LokSound Select decoder in my Bachmann Berkshire 2-8-4 and I can't get the brake squeal to function. I have tried all the brake squeal associated function using DecoderPro and nothing works. Anyone familiar with these ESU decoders and can suggest what I am missing. This is the first Lok sound decoder I have installed and their manual is overwhelming with all the features/settings. I still don't have the chuff just right but that is getting better.

I would also like to remap the short whistle to F3 but that is also difficult to understand how it is done. F3 is currently the coupling sound. There is a function mapping chart in the manual but not clear as to how to do it. Very frustrating instructions.

   -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 12:34 PM

If I remember correctly, you have to do turn to page 34 of 48. It will tell you how to compute CV48.

 

In order to compute the complete value you need to store in CV 48, please follow this procedure:

1. From the figure in section 5.2.7.1., note the value shown for your desired air horn.

2. From the figure in section 5.2.7.2., note the value shown for your desired prime mover sound.

3. From the figure in section 5.2.7.3., note the value shown for your desired bell selection.

4. From the figure in section 5.2.7.4., note the value shown for your desired brake squeal selection.

5. Add all 4 values and write the sum into CV 48.

 

 

6. Allow a power cycle of your LokSound Select decoder. After the new startup, the values will be enabled.

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, February 10, 2015 1:15 PM

farrellaa
I would also like to remap the short whistle to F3 but that is also difficult to understand how it is done. F3 is currently the coupling sound. There is a function mapping chart in the manual but not clear as to how to do it. Very frustrating instructions.

What I found frustrating about the function mapping stuff was that it took me some time to figure out that figure 14 on page 25 of the instructions was really an extension of figure 13 on page 24.  If you print out figure 14 and line it up with the right side of figure 13, the instructions become a little clearer.

Then it is a matter of lining up a straight edge between the function button you want to use and the thing you want to control.  In your case you'd line up 5 rows down with the F3 under the function button column (figure 13) and 5 lines down under the "short airhorn" column on figure 14.  The short airhorn is in a group of functions listed under "sound functions #2". So if you move 8 and 9 columns to the left of the short airhorn column you'll see the columns for a value for CV 32 and the control CV, which for the row of functions that includes the short airhorn happens to be CV335. 

So what you'd want to do is first set CV 32 to a value of 2, and then set CV335 to a value of 128.  Once you learn how to look at the chart, it becomes a lot easier.

Note that if you look at function 20 on page 24 and read across, you'll see that the 128 is highlighted under the short air horn column, which means that the default function for the short airhorn is F20.

Hope you find this helpful. 

Edit:  I just went back and re-read your post.  I see that you have the decoder installed in a steamer, not a diseasel.  Same procedure I described should work, except you need the other two charts. 

 

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Posted by farrellaa on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 12:30 AM

Thanks guys, I will try this out tomorrow (hopefully?) and post the results.

    -Bob

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 11:07 AM

Concerning the brake squeal, what are you trying to do?  Are you trying to set the volume, or to set the point at which it activates?

Looking through the manual, it appears that you have a choice of two different "brake squeals".  I don't find any description of what the difference is, but to change from one to the other you have to either add 0 or 128 to all the other values you need to come up with a final value in CV 48.  This is described on pages 33 and 34 in the manual.

Concerning the volume of the squeal, I don't see it listed on the volume adjustable list on page 34 of the manual.  Therefore, until someone corrects me, I have to assume that the squeal is grouped with what they are calling random sounds.  Volume for brake is on the random sound table, and is controlled by CV 459.  This is shown on page 35 on the left just below the conrollable volume table.  Please note the item that tells you to change CV 32 to a value of 1 prior to making any volume changes.

So far as when the squeal activates, I don't see any place where that can be changed, nor when it is supposed to occur.  My experience is that it occurs when you are at a low number speed step and then move the "throttle" to a lower number or stop.  This question, if no one can answer it here, is probably best addressed at the Loksound Yahoo group, https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/loksound/info 

Good luck.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 2:01 PM

I can help you with your settings, but I need to know what file you are working from ....

Mark.

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Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 3:56 PM

I've put in 4 LokSound Select decoder lately but not dealt with that issue.  And I very much like them overall, but have struggled a bit. 

I found another table mis-labeled (wrong number) as well.  I used DecoderPro to reverse the normal direction (as I could not figure out CV29 per the manual) and turn off analog DC, but on other items I ran into difficulty.  An example...I could not get the last step of the speed table to adjust.  Not sure if I called up the wrong decoder format in DecoderPro or it it's not up to date with the decoders.  So I just used CV changes CVs 2, 5, 6) with my throttle.  I did make my way through the function mapping and light adjustments using the manual.  It's a definite learning experience.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 4:08 PM

peahrens

I've put in 4 LokSound Select decoder lately but not dealt with that issue.  And I very much like them overall, but have struggled a bit. 

I found another table mis-labeled (wrong number) as well.  I used DecoderPro to reverse the normal direction (as I could not figure out CV29 per the manual) and turn off analog DC, but on other items I ran into difficulty.  An example...I could not get the last step of the speed table to adjust.  Not sure if I called up the wrong decoder format in DecoderPro or it it's not up to date with the decoders.  So I just used CV changes CVs 2, 5, 6) with my throttle.  I did make my way through the function mapping and light adjustments using the manual.  It's a definite learning experience.

 

The last step in the speed table is not adjustable in the speed table itself .... and neither is the first one. The way ESU handles speed tables is a bit different (better actually) than what other decoders use.

With ESU speed tables, you create your desired speed table curve, then adjust the two ends using CVs 2 and 5. By adjusting CVs 2 and 5 after you've created your speed curve, the curve remains the same shape, but is compressed to fit between the two ends points. This way, any adjustments to either end point won't throw off the shape of the curve you spent so much time creating !

Mark.

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Posted by farrellaa on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 6:08 PM

Well I tried all the suggestions and nothing works? I went through the CV48 paramaters and came up with a value of 165, which is exactly  what was in CV48 already (from my settings with DecoderPro I assume?)

I set CV32 to 2 and CV335 to 128 per the mapping charts and nothing saved or would write to the decoder. Using DecoderPro, I changed all the CV values and in the order (CV32 first and then CV335). After shutting the engine down and restarting it, it remained as it was and none of the changes were saved/written to the decoder? I did this several times and nothing would be accepted by the decoder. Every time I changed a value, I would read it and it always went back to 0? I am totally lost at this point.

As mention the instruction/manual is very vague in what does what and how to change it. Some of the function features in DecoderPro are not explanined anywhere and so I don't know what they would change or do?

I can change all of the other settings like whistle type, bell rate, chuff settings etc and have no problems with them. Just baffling as to what is going on with it. I am using an isolated programming track with a PM3 and DecoderPro. This is an ESU Loksound Select 73414 HEAVY STEAM decoder.

   -Bob

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 6:46 PM

How about forgetting decoderpro for a moment and just manually changing the settings using your command station?  I don't know if this applies to your situation, but I think you need the latest version of decoderpro to make some changes to the LokSound decoders.

And you should be able to program these particular settings on the main.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 7:17 PM

 Definitely for function mapping, you need the latest DecoderPro. For some of the standard NMRA CVs, it doesn't matter too much, but to access that function remap table which lets you map anything to anything, they had to make code changes in JMRI so only the latest version actually works (and it's still a bit of a work in progress - at the same time they are trying to get the Wow decoders to work completely as well, and they have their own way of doing things as well).

 I decided a while ago I was going to standardize on Loksound, so I got the Lokprogrammer and it's pretty easy to do this in there. It also reads the whole decoder in a a few seconds, it takes JMRI, even using a fast programmer like the SPROG, quite some time to read all sheets. The Lokprogrammer uses a proprietary protocol (likely the same one that sends the sound files to the decoder - it would take forever to load new sounds if the file was copied 8 bits at a time like reading/writing CVs, and it only takes a minute to load a new sound file, so it makes sens that reading the entire decoder config via this same method shoiuld also be quick. Even with all those CVs it's still significantly less data than a new sound file.

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 7:21 PM

rrinker
Definitely for function mapping, you need the latest DecoderPro. For some of the standard NMRA CVs, it doesn't matter too much, but to access that function remap table which lets you map anything to anything, they had to make code changes in JMRI so only the latest version actually works (and it's still a bit of a work in progress

Yes, what Randy said.  So just forget about decoderpro for making those two remapping settings and do them manually.  Let us know if that works.

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Posted by farrellaa on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 7:31 PM

maxman
Yes, what Randy said. So just forget about decoderpro for making those two remapping settings and do them manually. Let us know if that works.

Thanks, I will try it tomorrow. Haven't done ANY programming without DecoderPro in years (but I still know how to ride a bike!) so I will have to get my Digitrax manual out and read up on it. DecoderPro has spoiled me! I do think I have the latest version though, about a month ago.

   -Bob

PS: Randy, I would get the ESU LOKprogrammer if I was to switch over to all Loksound decoders. So far I really like them, but also like the WOW as well. I can definately see the advantages when it comes to programming sound files, which I would like to do.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 7:39 PM

Not sure what to tell you. I just loaded that file, selected CV49 with a value of 165 and gave it a try. Brake squeel works just fine for me. (?)

I still have the Brake Sounds at the factory default - Switching On Threshold (CV64) set to 100 and Switching Off Threshold (CV65) set to 25.

Not sure where you wanted to put the coupler sound, so to just swap the coupler sound with the Short Whistle, set the following ....

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 2

----------------------

CV334 =   0

CV335 = 128

 

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 3

----------------------

CV350 =  16

Mark.

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Posted by farrellaa on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:10 PM

Thanks Mark, will try all of this tomorrow.

I did try to swap the coupler sound to F20 (default for the short whistle) also without results?

   -Bob

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:30 PM

Mark R.
I still have the Brake Sounds at the factory default - Switching On Threshold (CV64) set to 100 and Switching Off Threshold (CV65) set to 25.

Where did you come up with CVs 64 and 65?  I don't see them listed on the CV list in the on-line Select manual, nor anywhere in the instructions.

I also don't see any reference to CV31, so same where did that come from question.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:35 PM

You really should be referencing the 4.0 manual. It elaborates on many aspects more in depth than the Select manual. Both decoders program identical.

Mark.

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 11, 2015 9:42 PM

Mark R.

You really should be referencing the 4.0 manual. It elaborates on many aspects more in depth than the Select manual. Both decoders program identical.

Mark.

 
Well, okay, that's good to know.  Always interesting to find out there are secret instructions for things!
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Posted by farrellaa on Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:15 AM

Good news! I got all the changes made using the Ops mode programming on the main. Everything works as I wanted except the brake squeal needs some adjusting. Apparently it doesn't work on reverse/backing though? Odd?

I got the short whistle remapped to F3; works great.

It is a little more work than using DecoderPro since some CV's need to have CV32 set before changing the target CV. I will have to print the full manual as I only printed about 10 pages of the areas of interest and that just isn't enough. I just never stop learning something everyday!

Thanks again to all!

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Thursday, February 12, 2015 12:39 PM
Looks like the problem was with DecoderPro.
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Posted by farrellaa on Thursday, February 12, 2015 11:48 PM

gatrhumpy
Looks like the problem was with DecoderPro.
 

I have to admit that DecoderPro may have some shortcomings with newer decoders. This is the first time it has let me down.  I will keep checking with their website for updates, I don't want to abandon it, it really is a blessing to me when it comes to programming decoders. I don't have to keep looking up decoder manufacturer's manuals for CV lists and their values.

   -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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