Hi again,
In my experience, DCC is definitely more sensitive than DC. I have had two areas of "proof" that I have dealt with.
- the first was when I was building the current HO DCC layout, and used some older Atlas turnouts (fresh from my previous DC layout). Certain steamers would short out on them, whereas the same steamers did not when running DC. It turns out the wheels would bridge the "V" in the middle of the turnout. Of course this happened with both DC and DCC, but with DC the locos continued on - with DCC they stopped dead.
- the other experience (plural) is with sound locos. It seems like any kind of non perfect connectivity will stop/start the sound system. I don't recall this happening when running them on DC.
Whether my experience is unique or not, IMO there is no question that an extensive network of feeders is necessary for proper running with DCC equipment.
For what its worth.........
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I then started on my previous 8x12 layout. Once I had the first loop around completed, this time using Atlas Code 83 flex and Custom Line turnouts, I connect just one pair of feeders to my Zephyr to test it, and trains ran all the way around the 8x12 without slowing down or having power issues. No joints were soldered. So yes, sometimes you CAN get away with just 2 wires.
So yes, sometimes you CAN get away with just 2 wires.
I have an 8 by 24 twice around layout, with an extensive yard. When I first built it, I also had only one pair of feeders. Worked fine the first year or two. Then the trains began to stumble at various places on the layout, and it only got worse. What happens is that new rail and new joiners make good contact. But after a few years, the joiners and rails develope a very fine film of oxidation, which inhibits current flow. A volt meter will show voltage, but the trains will still stumble, because there isn't enough current flowing through the corroded rail joints. Sometimes, when a train stalls, if you press on the nearest rail joint, the train takes off again. This is a clear indication of corroded rail joints. You can see this corrosion on older rail, just by rubbing your finger along the rail, and noting the black stuff on your finger from the rail tops. It is also in the rail joiners where you can't see it. So yes, sometimes you CAN get away with just 2 wires, but only on relatively new layouts.
As Randy pointed out, DC can be just as sensitive as DCC especially if the current isn't flowing. Dead spots on sectional track are just as ded with DC as they are with DCC. Depending on a slip fit rail joiner will eventually ruin your day. Solder feeders or joiners or some of both. Leave gaps every couple of feet for expansion/contraction. Just make sure there is at least one set of feeders on each section.
Martin Myers
Anecdotal, but it can be all over the place - I don;t see DCC as any more sensitive than DC power - either way, if there are interruptions, things stop.
I made a test oval with some Bachmann EZ-Track. Even with 4 sets of feeders spaced around the oval, I had slowdowns at each spot between feeders. No joints soldered.
I then started on my previous 8x12 layout. Once I had the first loop around completed, this time using Atlas Code 83 flex and Custom Line turnouts, I connect just one pair of feeders to my Zephyr to test it, and trains ran all the way around the 8x12 without slowing down or having power issues. No joints were soldered.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Good point. Rail joiners are NOT a reliable method of electrical connection.On my last layout EVERY piece of rail was soldered to a feeder. Some of my pieces of rail were 2 flextrack sections soldered together, and some of my switch ladders I had the outermost rail soldered together.I used DCC friendly turnouts, and I had SIX feeders per turnout; the outer stock rails, the closure rails, and the points all had their own independent feeders soldered in place.Yeah, it was a lot of soldering, and it required care and really flexible wire for the points. But I NEVER had engines stall on a turnout.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Hi,
I have not read all the postings so this is an "uninfluenced" reply........
Like most of the older MRs, I started out with sectional track. It was a big step when I moved to flex track, but once I got the feel for it, I could not comprehend going back. This is something you should consider, but I do understand if you are unable to convert at this time. Sooooo,
DCC is very, very sensitive. Ideally, it would be great if you had feeders to every section. But we both know that ain't gonna happen. Sooo, I would solder the track sections together (to assure connectivity), and put feeders in every 3 or 4 feet. I would make certain that every siding had its own feeder as well.
Why solder each track? Well, on my own layout I had a dead spot the other day. It turned out to be one rail of a 9 inch section. Neither end was soldered, and although the connectors appeared to be firmly, they just would not carry the current. Soooo, a drop of solder was worked into each, and no more dead spot.
Folcroft DonMigrating from DC to DCC. Building a layout using Atlas sectionl track. I am told I need to drop feeders from every section...no matter how short...to buss wires.
I do not solder, nor do I put a feeder to every piece of track. What you "need to do" seriously depends on all sorts of factors.
Bayfield Transfer Railway I soldered together flextrack into six foot sections and dropped feeders from each. You can combine eight pieces of sectional track to do the same. But do leave gaps. Note that it is not repeat not repeat NOT!!! the metal rail expanding and contracting; for that to happen you'd have to have such extreme temperatures that the plastic ties melt. What's happening is that as humidity changes, the wood and other porous parts of the layout swell and shrink. Homasote's a real bugger for that, which is too bad because otherwise it's perfect.
I soldered together flextrack into six foot sections and dropped feeders from each. You can combine eight pieces of sectional track to do the same. But do leave gaps.
Note that it is not repeat not repeat NOT!!! the metal rail expanding and contracting; for that to happen you'd have to have such extreme temperatures that the plastic ties melt. What's happening is that as humidity changes, the wood and other porous parts of the layout swell and shrink. Homasote's a real bugger for that, which is too bad because otherwise it's perfect.
That's true. I can't believe just how many times I've read people talking about the track expanding and contracting !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
For this reason I solder some but not all joiners. The unsoldered ones are NOT used to carry power - there are feeders to soldered sections on either side of any unsoldered joints. Seems to be the best of both worlds - all track is powered and rail joiners alone are not the means of getting power to adjecent sections, yet in case of any movement, there are palces for the rail to move along with the base without kinking. Last two layouts have been on extruded foam insulation though, and despite humidity extremes and temperature changes over 30+ degrees, there was never any evidence of movement.
To each their own and if it works for you, OK, but soldering rail joiners I won't do. Rail expands/contracts with changing temperature unless of course your layout is in a temperature controlled room.
To each their own and if it works for you, OK, but soldering rail joiners I won't do.
Rail expands/contracts with changing temperature unless of course your layout is in a temperature controlled room.
Yep. I found this out the hard way. My layout is in an unheated garage. I have both a wood and gas stove for when I'm working out there. But it is basically unheated. Had lots of warped and kinked track. Now I leave small expansion gaps, and wire feeders to each section of track. I did solder track joints for some crossovers, because the lengths of track involved were short, and there was little expansion involved. To cut down the number of feeders to install, I am soldering jumper wires around the rail joiners, and out of sight. A slight sag in the jumper wires allows for expansion or contraction, just like the utility lines.
Iansa To each their own and if it works for you, OK, but soldering rail joiners I won't do. Rail expands/contracts with changing temperature unless of course your layout is in a temperature controlled room. I always leave a small gap between rails at each join, the width of a hobby knife blade. IMHO power feeders soldered to each peice of rail including points/turnouts is the way to go. A pain in the rear end and extra work, it may be, but, if you want to bullet proof your layout and not have voltage drop anywhere it will save frustration in the long run. I must admit I live in Sth Australia and my layout is in a tin shed. In the summer time we get temperatures up to 40+C and because my rail joiners are unsoldered with small gap. I have had no problems over many yrs. Just my opinion. Cheers Ian
I always leave a small gap between rails at each join, the width of a hobby knife blade.
IMHO power feeders soldered to each peice of rail including points/turnouts is the way to go.
A pain in the rear end and extra work, it may be, but, if you want to bullet proof your layout and not have voltage drop anywhere it will save frustration in the long run.
I must admit I live in Sth Australia and my layout is in a tin shed.
In the summer time we get temperatures up to 40+C and because my rail joiners are unsoldered with small gap. I have had no problems over many yrs.
Just my opinion.
Cheers
Ian
I'm in SA too,I solder most rail joints but leave a gap here and there for expansion/contraction
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
In my admittedly biased opinion, the only acceptable connection between track power supplies and rails passes through either soldered joints or connections made at properly tightened threaded terminals. This is true whether the rails and wires carry analog DC, DCC or even AC.
That said, there are three ways to achieve power distribution nirvana:
My personal preference is #3, driven by a desire to leave rails free to move (yes, Matilda, if the temperature goes from mid-20s to mid-120s, nickel silver WILL expand lengthwise.) For at least part of my layout, #22 stranded is a good substitute for the heavy jumpers welded around joints under catenary. In places where the motors don't run, I'm a little more subtle about hiding the jumpers since prototype signal jumpers are only about #6 wire, all but invisible in 1:80 scale.
If I had used sectional track, I would solder pieces into two-piece sections, then jumper those pieces out to the ends of the electrical block and install a single feeder. If there's only one feeder, there's only one place that future glitches can develop.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with electricals as bulletproof as I can make them)
By soldering sectional track joiners into lengths similar to flex track and leaving small gaps every three or four sectional track lengths should minimizes the chance of heat kinks and also cuts down on the amount of feeders needed.
My layout was initially built for DC with a mix of Atlas sectional tracks and flex tracks. The DC layout had sixteen isolated blocks (switching layout). When I converted to DCC I soldered rail joiners of each block. On the main, I soldered the rail joiners of all tracks located between turnouts and dropped additional feeders for each new "block". Then I had about twenty five pairs of feeders to solder to bus wires.
Works fine, for me.
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
Solder rail joiners. Then solder a pair of feeders to every three or four pieces of track.
Migrating from DC to DCC. Building a layout using Atlas sectionl track. I am told I need to drop feeders from every section...no matter how short...to buss wires.