I'm completely new to DCC and just wired up my first piece of track last night. So far I have one loco - a Walthers U28B with Tsunami Sound and the NCE Powercab system. I spent a lot of effort setting up a siding as a progrmaming track with DPDT switch, etc and so far this is the only piece of track in my layout that has power. So last night, I get the whole thing wired up and ready to go. After making sure my voltages were correct, I put the loco on the track, plugged in the cab, and voila - the engine started up. I was able to get all the functions to work, move the engine around, etc, but there are a few things that worked a way different from how I thought it would be, and I am trying to understand why.First, I thought that I was going to have to program the loco the first time I used it - or at least assign it a number. However, it looks like it automatically got assigned to 003. What is the reason for this? Does the Powercab automatically recognize this is a new loco and give it the first number? If I put a new loco on the track now and turn it on, will it be 004? Are these numbers remembered?The second thing that surprised me was that the engine started up as soon as the track got power. I thought I would have to first select the loco for it to turn on and go through the start up sequence. That's actually how I would prefer it to work. Is that a custom setting? If I have 4 locos sitting on the layout I don't want them all to start up as soon as I plug in the power.On that same note, is there a shutdown sequence as well? I am at work now but found the Tsunami Diesal manual online and I think I read that if you press the emergency stop button twice it shuts down the loco - but I haven't had a chance to try that yet. Does it have a special sound sequence for shutting down?Thank you,H
H,
By industry standards all motor decoders leave the factory, whether or not thay are installed in anytiing, they are programmed withthe short address of 3 and no long address. If you purchased two or more new decoder equipped locomotives, put them on the layout and select shrt address 3, they will all start up as you advance the throttle. Thus the nominclature "default address."
Follow the NCE instructions and program new addresses into the locomotives and they will operate independently unless you put them together in a consist.
As for starting up as soon as you powered the track I can only surmise that somehow that address was selected and the throttle was not a zero when the track was powered up. As a matter of practice, I always zero out the speed of my locomotives before shutting things down. This avoids the inadvertant start up.
I am not familiar with the Tsunami Diesel decoders. I have several QSI equipped locomotives and, yes, there is a shut down sequence that one MAY follow. If you go through the shut down sequence, you must then go through the start up sequence to run the locomotive again. Most of the time I do not go through the shut down sequence. I just set the throttle to zero. This stops the locomotive but it does not stop the sound. If I am quitting, I turn off the layout power which silences the locomotive. If I am continuing to run other things but don't want the idling sound, I either kill power to that section of track (if it is one of those for which I have installed a shut off switch) or just tilt the loco enough that the wheels on one side lose contact with the rail for a moment. I can then let it back down but it remains silent until it is selected again for duty.
Welcome to DCC! To answer you questions:
Address 3 - This is the 'default' address new decoders are shipped with.
Startup - There is no dedicated programming track output with the Power Cab. You have 'Main Line' power initially - You need to go into program mode to change the address CV's. NCE has a neat switching board(Auto-SW) that detects if 'program' commands are being sent, and cuts power to the Main and directs it to your program track. This prevents you from reprogramming all of the engine on the layout by accident!
Engine Sound - Your engine sound started, but you have not selected it yet.
Shutdown - depends on the sound decoder. Pressing the Emergency button on the throttle will shout down your engine, or the entire layout depending on brand of DCC system and how the throttle is programmed.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Some Tsunami decoders exhibit the peculiarilty of starting up as you power up.
You can change the value on a specific CV to prevent start up at power up time, but I don't recall the specific CV.
Rich
Alton Junction
If you read the manual, the red LED on the panel lights up as soon as you plug the power pack in. That LED monitors DCC power to the track.
If you ever install a decoder yourself, select program track option first, that will protect the decoder if it is mis wired. Happened to me once.
I have the Power Cab. Take your time reading the manual. The child in us is impatient at times. lol
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
hominamad I am at work now but found the Tsunami Diesal manual online and I think I read that if you press the emergency stop button twice it shuts down the loco
Pressing the emergency stop button one time will make the selected Tsunami loco go through the shut down sequence. Pressing the emergency stop button two times will shut down all locos on the railroad. If you want to mute the sound, I believe that for the Tsunami that would be function 8 (F8). Note that other brands of decoders may act differently.
Thanks guys. To be clear, I didn't mean that the loco started moving on power up - just that it turned on with the sound, etc. Is it possible that the Powercab starts up the default 003 loco on power on every time? I did read about the red led light in the manual actually, but I just thought that meant the track would get power - not that the locos would all start up. I thought that only happens when you select it. So is this behavior a Powercab thing, or is it something specific to the decoder on my loco?
It sounds like the thing to do is change the address of the locos to a different number when you first use it so that there is no confusion when a new loco comes on the scene?
hominamad not that the locos would all start up. I thought that only happens when you select it.
I believe that Tsunami's will start making sound on power-up. You have to read the Tsunami manual, but I believe that there is a CV change that can be made to prevent this from happening. Again, other decoders work differently. I believe that QSI and Loksound will not start making any sounds until the loco is addressed.
On a Tsunami decoder, CV113 is the Quiet Mode Timeout Period.
The default value of CV113 is zero. When set to zero, the loco sounds are activated at layout power up time. If the value is set to other than zero, sound becomes active only when the decoder is addressed.
When the locomotive has been stopped and all functions have been turned off, the sound effects will turn off automatically after the 'timeout period' has elapsed as set by CV113.
The timeout period, in seconds, is equal to the value of CV113 x .25. For example, if CV113 = 40, then the timeout period is 10 seconds.
Crazy, huh?
Wow - ok I'm glad I asked here. I don't know how I would have figure that out. The paperwork that came with the engine didn't have any info like that.
I saw the Powercab manual has some pretty detailed instructions about changing CVs. Is that something that a beginner like me shouldn't mess with? It does sort of bother me that the sounds come on when the track powers up, but I don't want to risk messing up the programming on it either.
I am a software developer by day, so I imagine I should be able to figure it out. I didn't even really understand if the behavior I was seeing was because of the decoder or because of the Powercab, but things are starting to become clear now....
hominamadI saw the Powercab manual has some pretty detailed instructions about changing CVs. Is that something that a beginner like me shouldn't mess with? It does sort of bother me that the sounds come on when the track powers up, but I don't want to risk messing up the programming on it either. I am a software developer by day, so I imagine I should be able to figure it out. I didn't even really understand if the behavior I was seeing was because of the decoder or because of the Powercab, but things are starting to become clear now....
Go for it. You'll be OK as a programmer. If all else fails and the loco gets all confused, CV = 30, then enter 2, and the loco will revert to the factory default settings and you can start all over again.
I can confirm the F8 will mute Tsunami sound (unless you've swapped, or function-mapped, F8 to something else.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I have a NCE PowerPro so have gone through a similar learning curve. Some comments additional to the above.
- should the decoder get confused, with or without your help, you can reset it to the factory defaults (with Tsunami and some other types) by writing "8" to CV8 and cycling the power off-to-on. Part of this reset will restore the address to 3 if it's been changed. EDIT: To avoid confusion, reset either by CV8 = 8 or CV30 = 2, either way, plus cycle the power.
- with Tusnami's the sound comes on when the track power is there, unless CV113 is adjusted as above. Except I've a Bachmann "Sound Value" mogul where that does not seem to work, most likely because that is one of the stripped down functionalites that is omitted.
- Suggest you wade in one step at a time with adjusting CVs. The first ones usually adjusted are the address. On my PowerPro, it's easily done using the throttle menu (see the instructions) without having to make direct CV adjustments (the NCE does what's needed). The next things often played with are turning off "DC / analog" mode as this can help prevent runaways (IIRC).
- I do recommend DecoderPro as an easy way to set up (most) decoders. But it requires the right kind of hookup from your PC to the NCE. Maybe your NCE version allows USB hookup, pretty easy, whereas my PowerPro needed a couple of (not usually around the house) serial connectors.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
mlehman hominamad I saw the Powercab manual has some pretty detailed instructions about changing CVs. Is that something that a beginner like me shouldn't mess with? It does sort of bother me that the sounds come on when the track powers up, but I don't want to risk messing up the programming on it either. I am a software developer by day, so I imagine I should be able to figure it out. I didn't even really understand if the behavior I was seeing was because of the decoder or because of the Powercab, but things are starting to become clear now.... Go for it. You'll be OK as a programmer. If all else fails and the loco gets all confused, CV = 30, then enter 2, and the loco will revert to the factory default settings and you can start all over again. I can confirm the F8 will mute Tsunami sound (unless you've swapped, or function-mapped, F8 to something else.
hominamad I saw the Powercab manual has some pretty detailed instructions about changing CVs. Is that something that a beginner like me shouldn't mess with? It does sort of bother me that the sounds come on when the track powers up, but I don't want to risk messing up the programming on it either. I am a software developer by day, so I imagine I should be able to figure it out. I didn't even really understand if the behavior I was seeing was because of the decoder or because of the Powercab, but things are starting to become clear now....
The factory reset on Tsunami decoders can be CV30=2 or CV8=8, either will work.
Pressing F8 will mute the sound functions, but changing the value of CV113 is necessary to prevent sound upon power up. Your choice - - mute it after the sound has started or prevent the sound from starting up in the first place until you actually address the decoder.
Thanks guys for your help. One more question about CV113 adjustment. If I change that value, will that just mute the sound on power-up, or will it actually prevent the loco from entering the startup sequence? Ideally I want the startup sequence to come on when I address the loco for the first time.
Changing CV113 to a non-zero value prevents the sound functions from starting up until you address the decoder. So, that is different than simply muting sound functions which continue to occur.
In terms of addressing the decoder, say you assign a long address of 1234. When you eventually decide to call up 1234, the start up functions all begin to take place, sound, motion, lighting.
Give it a try, experiment with different values in CV113, you can always change the value back to zero. Incidentally, you can change the value of CV113 by Programming on the Main, in OPS mode. You need not use the Programming Track.
I just tried it on a light steam Tsunami I added to a 2-8-0. I think CV113 is set around 150.
If I "select loco" with my NCE nothing happens then. If I up the speed step, the sound starts and it immediately starts to move. When I then stop it, the timer starts and it again goes silent, in this case in about 1/2 minute.
If I select it, then hit F8, then up the speed step, it moves silently.
If it is moving, or stopped before it times out, hitting F8 immediately silences it.
If still, hitting F8 does not make it go through a "startup sequence". That's a really(!) nifty feature the LokSounds have, as when inactive and F8 is hit, the loco goes through an (actually recorded) startup sequence, cranking, firing up, going into idle. Just teriffic IMO.
Caveat: I think this accurately captures what I observed.
H
Your NCE Powercab makes changing CVs very easy. The messages displayed are pretty clear as to their meaning. Just take your time and read the screen every time before punching in any numbers.
Something I suggest that you get into the habit of doing is recording your CV's existing values before changing them. That will give you a reference point to which you can return if you don't get the results you want. I also suggest writing down exactly what each CV is controlling so you can keep track of what was being changed. You can see the existing value for each CV if you use "Use Program Track" to make the changes. When you select a CV the screen will show you the current value. Sometimes that can take a few seconds. The screen will tell you to "Wait" until it is ready to accept the new value.
To change the locomotive number, or assign a 'long' address, use "Programming on the Main". The process is self explanatory. Your NCE Powercab will automatically take the decoder through the steps needed to set an address. Some systems require you to change values on more than one CV to input a long address.
As far as having your locomotives all start making sound as soon as the layout is powered up, Loksound decoders do not do that. You have to press F8 to 'start' the engine. With the other brands you will have to play with CVs as was stated above.
Something else that just about everyone does with the sound is turn it down - way down. The decoders are shipped with the sound close to max. It can be very irritating after a while. I run my Loksounds at about 1/5th of the maximum volume.
And, as has been stated several times already, if you mess up just reset the decoder and start over.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Wouldn't you be using CV116 to set this feature ? CV116 controls the "engine auto start". CV113 is the "quiet mode timeout feature".
Engine Auto-Start - When active, the Auto-Start feature starts up the prime mover sound automatically whenever the decoder is powered up regardless of whether or not it is addressed by the user. in this manner, the locomotive will begin producing sound without any user intervention.
By subtracting 32 from the value set in CV116 you'll be disabling the auto start feature. I have mine set to a value of 5 (CV113 is 0) and it will only start the sound when it is addressed and I bump the throttle up a notch and back.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I have found that to get a start up sequence on a tsunami I can select the engine then hit the emergency stop button. Then I press F8 to mute the sound. If I then go to step one on the throttle and back to zero. I wait a few seconds and hit F8 again and the engine goes through the start up sequence. I use F8 because if you don't mute the sound for a few seconds the engine sound will immediately come on when you add throttle and go through a shut down and then restart the start up sequence. Muting the sound for about five seconds avoids having to listen to it shut down before restarting. I think I read about this scenario in a previous thread. I am going to try Marks suggestion about using CV 116. That might be easier if the engine sound actually goes through the start up sequence with that CV set around 5 and the engine is selected.
Marty C
Mark,
I looked up the default settings for CV 116 on my Athearns and it is 39. On Protos and Intermountains with tsunamis it is 103. I did some experimenting using JMRI. My Athearn engines are set to change rpms every 10 steps. That made the CV116 setting 42. When I enable the engine interlock which says no engine movement until engine starts that changed CV 116 to 58. Now with those settings if I have shut the engine down after a run using the emegency button taking it through the shut down process I can get the start up sequence by going to step one and back to zero without the engine moving. If I did not use the emergecy stop button to shut down the engine but just turned off the layout while the engine had sound and then turn the system on and select the engine the sound will come on when I move the throttle to step one and back but without a start up sequence. I'm not sure of the why on all this but it works and is easier then the scenario in my previous post. I did not mean to steal the thread from the OP but thanks for the suggestion.
Mark R. Wouldn't you be using CV116 to set this feature ? CV116 controls the "engine auto start". CV113 is the "quiet mode timeout feature".
Soundtraxx titles CV116 on its Tsunami diesel decoders as "Engine Exhaust Control". Besides auto start, CV116 affects engine notch rate and dynamic braking.
The default value for CV116 is 39. As a result, the prime mover starts up when power is supplied to the track and the engine RPMs increase every 7 speed steps. So, to enable the prime mover to start up at speed step 1, auto start must be disabled by subtracting a value of 32, resulting in a CV value of 7. Further changes to the value of CV116 will affect the performance of engine RPMs and the dynamic braking feature.
I believe that what the OP is interested in doing is simply preventing sound at power up, and that can be accomplished by changing the value of CV113. Then,sounds become active only when the decoder is addressed. When the value of CV113 is changed from its default value of zero, the sound effects will turn off automatically after the timeout period has elapsed but only when the locomotive has been stopped and all functions have been turned off.
The Op stated that "I idealy want the start up sequence when I first select the engine". If you are not using manual notching then setting the rpm interlock which changes CV 116 only keeps the engine from moving when it is powered up. As mentioned previously if the tsunami has been shut down using the emergency stop button when the engine is in nuetral then going to step one on the throttle and back will trigger the start up sequence. If the tsunami was not shut down using the emergency stop button the sound will come on without the start up sequence when the throttle is toggled. At least that is what I found while experimenting late last night.
As an additional note, I have set the dynamic brake to operate independently of rpm so I will plead ignorance on what effect the above changes to CV 116 would have on braking.
Marty C The Op stated that "I idealy want the start up sequence when I first select the engine". If you are not using manual notching then setting the rpm interlock which changes CV 116 only keeps the engine from moving when it is powered up. As mentioned previously if the tsunami has been shut down using the emergency stop button when the engine is in nuetral then going to step one on the throttle and back will trigger the start up sequence. If the tsunami was not shut down using the emergency stop button the sound will come on without the start up sequence when the throttle is toggled. At least that is what I found while experimenting late last night. As an additional note, I have set the dynamic brake to operate independently of rpm so I will plead ignorance on what effect the above changes to CV 116 would have on braking. Marty C
Shutting the power to the rails off without going through the shut-down sequence, the decoder is basically still stuck in the idle loop. When track power is restored and the decoder is called, the file will pick back up where it left off - in the idle loop.
I prefer utilizing CV116 as opposed to CV113, as there may be times when the engine is sitting idle for some reason, and I don't want it to time out and shut down. I prefer to have full manual control over when an engine starts up and shuts down. There are many times a local may have to wait for a good deal of time before he can proceed with his job .... really wouldn't want the engine to time out and shut down ....
Mark R.I prefer utilizing CV116 as opposed to CV113, as there may be times when the engine is sitting idle for some reason, and I don't want it to time out and shut down. I prefer to have full manual control over when an engine starts up and shuts down. There are many times a local may have to wait for a good deal of time before he can proceed with his job .... really wouldn't want the engine to time out and shut down ....
As I understand it, and as someone mentioned above, all functions have to be off before the loco will complete the "go quiet" mode. So, if you leave the headlight on the loco should continue to sit at idle indefinitely.
maxman Mark R. I prefer utilizing CV116 as opposed to CV113, as there may be times when the engine is sitting idle for some reason, and I don't want it to time out and shut down. I prefer to have full manual control over when an engine starts up and shuts down. There are many times a local may have to wait for a good deal of time before he can proceed with his job .... really wouldn't want the engine to time out and shut down .... As I understand it, and as someone mentioned above, all functions have to be off before the loco will complete the "go quiet" mode. So, if you leave the headlight on the loco should continue to sit at idle indefinitely.
Mark R. I prefer utilizing CV116 as opposed to CV113, as there may be times when the engine is sitting idle for some reason, and I don't want it to time out and shut down. I prefer to have full manual control over when an engine starts up and shuts down. There are many times a local may have to wait for a good deal of time before he can proceed with his job .... really wouldn't want the engine to time out and shut down ....
That's true, but utilizing it the way I have works perfect for ME.
I'm confused. Are you saying that with a certain setting in CV 116 the tsunami locomotive will not shut down until you push the emergency stop even if all functions (lights) are off and CV 113 is greater than zero? Or does CV 113 have to be set to zero to get the effect you are talking about?
Thanks,
maxman Pressing the emergency stop button one time will make the selected Tsunami loco go through the shut down sequence. Pressing the emergency stop button two times will shut down all locos on the railroad. If you want to mute the sound, I believe that for the Tsunami that would be function 8 (F8). Note that other brands of decoders may act differently.