Typically, it's been a lead from the pickups on the trucks. It shorts to the frame, but not through the decoder. With a bit of oil present, guess that was the source of the smoke, although could also be melted insulation. I think one of the times I was pushing the loco hard and the motor overheated leading to a small bit of smoke, but was OK once cooled. Sure looked like a decoder fry on that one, but it was OK.
What makes this tricky depends on the way one use the programming track. As several have noted, always use it to check your work, no matter how minor. If the shell of the loco is off and you're watching carefully, often you can see the source of the smoke and that does pinpoint things.
But putting on the shell once everything has checked out "naked" can introduce a problem. That's why it's best to once again put it on the programming track once everything is buttoned up, just to be certain nothing was displaced. The problem here is that if you don't do that and the shell is on, you can see the smoke rising, but mostly you can't tell where it's coming from under the hood. The obvious conclusion is fried decoder, but more than once I've been pleasantly surprised to find it wasn't.
But if you do see the smoke came from the decoder, it is fried in my experience, too.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
mlehman richhotrain 2. - If the decoder smoked, you fried it. True, but sometimes when you see smoke, it's not the decoder.
richhotrain 2. - If the decoder smoked, you fried it.
True, but sometimes when you see smoke, it's not the decoder.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain2. - If the decoder smoked, you fried it.
True, but sometimes when you see smoke, it's not the decoder. I've done my fair share of smoked decoders, maybe half a dozen since I started in DCC, but I've also had three where I saw smoke, but the source turned out to be not the decoder.
I've also sent a Tsunami back on my first install on the C-25, thinking I must fried it. That was before I figured out how to interpret what the PowerCab was telling me, i.e. that's why I mentioned "Cannot read CV" above. Turns out that all the flexing and tugging involved in my first clumsy attempt at an install had simply pulled one wire loose from the solder pad on the decoder, but was hidden underneath the shrink. Decoder was fine once Soundtraxx soldered that back on. No smoke in this case, but that can be almost as maddening as seeing smoke.
Based some helpful advice when I first started, I have bought nothing but Kato N-scale locomotives. Recently I have converted four to DCC and the installation was relatively simple and straightforward. The decoders mostly just drop into the locomotives. Having said that, I did have the same problem--lights, but no action. It was a connection problem due to only using the copper clips. A couple spots of solder and the problem went away.
I agree, N-scale is small. I bought an inexpensive magnifying visor and it was one of the best purchases I have made for working with the little buggers. (That, and a good set of tweezers.)
Richard
Three comments.
1. - I started out with electrical tape, but later moved to Kapton tape.
2. - If the decoder smoked, you fried it.
3. - Why are DCC equipped locomotives so hard to find? They're not.
One more vote for Kapton tape. Besides electrical tape being too thick and gooey, the goo will only get worse once heated up by sitting next to a warm motor. Kapton is superthin and not gooey.
TechPastorThanks for the helpful responses. I think I know where I messed up. After I first installed it the loco's lights would work but it would not run. I think I had the decoder in correctly, but I think the motor contacts were not making contact with the decoder. Then I think my further tinkering with things and fumbling with dropping parts created a short somewhere. I will keep troubleshooting. If the decoder is fried I will put TCS' warrantee to the test. Question: Their instructions did not call for kapton tape, but it does make sense for insulation. Until now I had never heard of kapton tape. Is there a reason simple electrical tape would not do the job?
Electrical tape is thick, squishy and can creep. Kapton is FAR better, thinner and I and many others have used Kapton.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
On any new decoder installs, ALWAYS test then using the programming track first. The system will use a small amount of current, not enough to run the loco, but enough to test things to see if everything is OK. If something is wrong, the display will tell you so you can fix it before any damage occurs. Learn to use this feature. It saves decoders.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
TechPastor...Which brand of locomotive tends to have the simplest method of upgrading to DCC? If DCC is so popular and the way to go, why is it so difficult to find DCC equipped locos for purchase?..
Kato and Fox Valley Models tend to be very easy. Most Bachmann come with a decoder already installed, although their decoders tend to be low-end unless you get sound equipped. I don't know where you've been looking, but most Atlas locos are available with a factory installed decoder. Also, while Kato does not sell any locos with factory installed decoders, they do sell what they call "Kato Kobo Cusotms" which you can get with decoders installed.
TechPastor...Until now I had never heard of kapton tape. Is there a reason simple electrical tape would not do the job?
Electrical tape would work in most situations, but Kapton tape is much thinner and it's glue doesn't tend to get all slimy like that of electrical tape.
.... .... .... .... ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Be sure you've tried the full factory reset, if the PowerCab let's you do that. If it's tripping off, then it's still shorted. This does NOT necessarily mean the decoder is toast, just that there's a short there somewhere.
The opposite problem is having an open circuit. Then the PowerCab will tell you "Cannot Read CV."
It's possible you did fry the decoder, but often enough a puff of smoke is just from a short that doesn't kill the decoder, especially if the short happened with a little oil or grease present.
If the PowerCab won't stay up, then you need to carefully look over everything and determine where the fault is. Look for a scorch mark or a wire that's obviously in the wrong place.
Actually you had it almost right the first time. Being able to turn the lights on and off with its address selected means that the decoder was properly isolated. The normal issue with Atlas decoder installations is the motor contact area. Their design makes getting this part right very hard.
I alway wrap the metal frame on either side of the motor contacts with Kapton tape. This keeps the motor contacts from shorting to the frame. Then the hard part is lining them up just right with the pads on the decoder. IIRC, the decoders have a slot for the contacts. Get them in those slots and the motor will run.
Next time do not split the frames apart. Simply spread them far enough to get the decoder in. The trucks may fall out but can be easily snapped back in after the decoder is set and halves are pushed ack together. This keeps the little important stuff from falling out all over the floor.
Good news is TCS will replace ypur decoder with their one year Goof Proof Warranty. See their web site for procedeure.
Martin Myers
I miss-wired a decoder one time. Orange and red wire swapped. My Power Cab on program track told me right away. I never put a loco with new decoder on the track without setting up the Power Cab on program first.
rich
Yup... I think it *is* fried.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
The NCE Powercab does have a programming track feature. If OP does not have the Auto SW or some other switch setup to seperate the programming track then the main track will simply turn into the programming track when that mode is activated. Remember to only have 1 decoder or locomotive on the progamming track.
Doug, sorry your first experience may not turn out ok for that loco but the learning will help for others and in the long run you will enjoy it.
Does that NCE have a program track. If so, try a reset and/or try to read a CV on the decoder (e.g., manufacturer's code in CV8). Maybe you can tell if it's living or smoked.
I'm in HO so can't zero in on N scale offerings. I started again 3 yrs ago and went with DCC, buying a Genesis GP-9 with DCC so I could get going. I acquired a Kato RS-2 that allowed a simple first conversion, adding a TCS plug-in motor decoder. Kato seems to be making primarily N locos now. I next tried a Bachmann 2-8-0 with DCC but no sound, replacing the board with a sound Tsunami plus a speaker in the tender. Next I've done a DC to DCC sound Lifelike E-6 that while 8-pin DCC ready, needed the board removed for speaker room plus replacing the light bulbs with LEDs. Next I'm getting to alternate speaker types, iPhone5/sugarcubes that would have lots of utility for N scale; e.g., the mid size one is only 11x15x2.5mm.
You might look at EBay to find an unused but convertible loco or two that you target. And talk to Tony's Trains and/or Litchfield Station for advice on what to look for and what would be involved in that conversion. They sell parts but also do conversions so someone at those sites can help.
On your last question, in HO there is a pretty good selection of DCC new offerings and if adding in the unused EBay offerings (buy from sellers with high ratings and good photos) of DCC or convertible ones, that can help.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Hey Everyone.
After many years I am preparing to build a new layout. Decided to try N scale, so I am literally starting with nothing. That being the case, I decided to go with DCC from the beginning. I bought an NCE PowerCab and a couple of locomotives to get started. I have a new Atlas GP15-1 and I bought a TCS ASD4 decoder. I looked at the installation pictures and instructions on the TCS website and plunged right in.
Removing the shell on the unit, I instantly questioned the wisdom of moving to N scale. That stuff is tiny! The instructions call for the removal of the two screws holding the two halves of the frame together. This is where it gets bad. I remove the two screws and it is like an explosion took place. The trucks fall off, tiny frame separator thingys fall off, a drive shaft comes out, etc. It happened so fast I wasn't even sure where some things came from. So I carefully arranged things on my work mat in the way I thought they would go back.
Continuing with the install (and not knowing if I would ever get this back together) I removed the light board per instructions only to discover that the decoder I bought from TCS looks nothing like the one in their pictures. A quick call to their support (very helpful BTW) revealed that the picture was outdated and they had created a new and improved one. I have the right decoder after all (Whew!).
You have to remove tiny little brass clips from the stock light board and put them on the new decoder. I must admit it was a good thing I was home alone at the time as I exploded in a few rants during the process:)
Reaching the point of reassembly, I began to put everything together. I looked up a parts diagram at Atlas' website to make sure I was doing it right. Inexplicably, abolutely nothing in this locomotive snaps, attaches, or holds together in any way. You have to put it all together, use ten hands to hold it just so, and bind it all together with those two screws to get it all together again. While holding one thing, another would fall off. It was like watching a Three Stooges show (without the entertainment part).
I finally got it together and placed it on the track for testing. Followed the instructions with the PowerCab and selected the loco and applied throttle. Nothing. I could turn on the headlights (in both directions!), but the loco didn't move.
To shorten this a little, I took it apart, looking for shorts and problems, never really figuring anything out. The last time I tried to test run it a little puff of smoke came from the loco. I think I killed it. This leads me at last to my questions for the forum:
Any suggestion on trouble shooting and repairing my locomotive?
Which brand of locomotive tends to have the simplest method of upgrading to DCC?
If DCC is so popular and the way to go, why is it so difficult to find DCC equipped locos for purchase?
Thanks for reading. It was much needed therapy for me to write it...
Doug