After 20 years of saying I want to get back to my HO layout, I finally did it. Took a little while, but I have figured out how to operate all the blocks and switches. Everything works but I have found out the hobby has really changed. DCC seems to have really shaken things up for the better.
I have a 8' by 15' layout with a lot of track, reverse loops, wyes, turntable, etc. I want to convert to DCC and have done a fair amount of reading on the internet and visited the local train shop, and also a very large train club layout in "O" scale and picked their brains a little.
When I immerse myself into something, I do not like to be limited by equipment, but don't want to throw a lot of $$ at something just to do it. I seem to be favoring either an MRC or NCE Wireless system, but I have a ton of unanswered questions and seem to add to that list each time I try and narrow down the list.
I stubled across this site and it looks like a place to start actually getting answers. I am getting lost in the terminology to start. I need to find a great resource that explains this stuff in detail. Everytime I read an article, a new term pops up that the writer assumes the reader knows, and sometimes I don't. Assumed knowledge can be dangerous and costly.
Some other unknowns about the wireless systems. When they are purchased, does it come with a powerpack? Soundcards? What are boosters? I have been told NCE is the top of the line. Why is that better than the MRC? Is it worth converting Atherns diesel DC engines or just purchase new ones for DCC? In essence, I need a LOT of help for those that have been there and done that.
Thanks!
Phil
So before I purchase anything, I need to learn all this stuff to make a wise decision.
A DCC system consists of the command station, a handset or throttle, a booster, and a power supply.
There are basically two levels of DCC system out there right now. A beginner system that has around 2 amps +/- power output, and advanced systems that have about 5 amps output.
The amount of power you need is not determined by the size of your railroad, but rather by the number of locos and accessories you plan to use.
The beginner systems typically contain the command station (the brains), booster, throttle, and power supply all packaged together. However, the method of packaging can vary. Some packages come in a box that looks like your typical DC control box. Examples of this are the Digitrax Zypher and the new NCE Twin. Others utilize the handset as the combination throttle, booster, and command station and have a wall wart type plug in power supply (transformer). An example of this is the NCE PowerCab.
The advanced systems typically come with the command station and the booster packaged as one unit. Depending on the set purchased, it may or may not include a power supply (transformer). In addition, you can purchase a radio DCC system as an upgrade to the basic advanced system, or you can add the radio portion later as your budget allows.
The booster is what converts the DC power from the transformer to the AC power required by the DCC system. As I mentioned, most advanced systems include a booster as part of the system. What happens with very large model railroads with many locos is that the owner will break the railroad into sections, each with its own booster, so that there will be enough amperage to power the trains in each section of railroad.
Concerning the choice of manufacturer, well, that's a subject of much discussion and argument. Until recently, if it was the owner's intention to have a computer interface with the DCC system, typically JMRI (java model railroad interface), NCE would have been the choice because MRC was not willing to share some necessary information with the JMRI programmers. Recently I understand that this situation has changed, but I haven't heard of any MRC users using JMRI on this forum.
Just so you know, I mentioned NCE as the choice only because you said that you were looking at NCE and MRC. I happen to be a happy NCE user. But if you had left the alternate to MRC open ended, then anyone could have easily inserted some brand other than NCE.
Concerning "sound cards", there are no such thing. There are "sound decoders" which add the sound to a loco (along with an added speaker) and also provide motor control to move the loco.
Converting Athearn locos to DCC depends upon the vintage of the Athearn units you have. Some recent Athearns have a pretty good motor, while older units are current hogs. You would need to provide more information re: what you actually have.
Some good reading here.
http://www.wiringfordcc.com
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Welcome to the forums. Stuff does pile up on unused tables, glad you found yours under all the stuff and that it is working.
If you are wired for DC, you can just hitch up your DCC power to it and it should go just fine, with all switches set to one cab. You will have to get some special units for your reverse loops and turntable, I have to leave that to those who have them.
As for DCC, the different brands don't mix. Some starter sets are more expandable than others, so think about what you plan and see what the capabilities are. The one thing I would recommend is to find out what others in your area have. If there is a club or operating group, find out what they have. By doing so you will have folks that can help with your questions close at hand. Also, you can take your controllers and join them or they can come and operate with you.
As I understand it, some DCC systems are upgradable to wireless, just be sure what you buy is, if that is the way you plan to go.
I have the NCE Power Cab, enjoy it, still learning it's capabilities, can, but have not taken my controller to the nearby operating group. Their existance was one of my main reasons for settling on the NCE. As you have indicated you looked over many brands, I did too. If there is no one close to you, one or two features of a certain brand may be the deciding factor
Good luck,
Richard
Welcome aboard!
As you can already see, this is a place full of helpful people who can give you good advice, and who are willing to share their knowledge.
I've got a Lenz DCC system. I'm very happy with it, although I would probably look at other systems today because the basic design is getting somewhat dated. I just added wireless to it.
The National Model Railroad Association holds the specifications for what must appear "on the track" to be called DCC compliant. Because of this, we can be sure that every DCC decoder, the locomotive part, will work with every DCC system, the throttle and command station part. This is one thing that has made DCC adoption easy, and has opened the market to a lot of different manufacturers, leading to more innovation, a constantly-improving product and lower prices.
But, the specification only applies to what happens between the track and the locomotive. What goes on between the base station and the throttle is a completely different situation, so, in general, there is little compatability. If you have an NCE base station, you must use NCE throttles, and so on. So, my first bit of advice is always to try the throttle, because this will be your personal interface to the system. Like your throttle, like your system.
The best news, by the way, is that almost all of the systems available are very, very good. Look for a system that's expandable, that is, one that you can add additional throttles and booster easily. That will cut out the low-end stuff you really don't want without naming names and offending anyone.
If you have a well-wired DC layout, by the way, converting to DCC is relatively easy. Just set all of your blocks to the same cab, plug the DCC system into that and you're ready to go.
20 years is a long time, but your engines may still be good enough and worth converting. You can buy inexpensive non-sound decoders for as little as $15 each. Installing them is a learning experience, but it's a skill easily learned. Sound decoders are considerably more expensive and installing them is more of an art. I just dove into these projects and did them. They didn't all turn out perfectly the first time, but, like I said, it's a learning process.
I started out building a DC layout from my old trains. I proceeded in a professional and workmanlike manner, designing a track plan using one of the available computer programs, measuring, soliciting advice and finally building. I started to lay track, and then a small financial windfall pushed me to buy my DCC system a bit ahead of schedule. I installed a decoder, started up the system and......oops, there went the professional and workmanlike stuff. I was 8 years old again, with a big kid's smile on my face. Yeah. It's that good.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Welcome.
More good reading. Check all his links. He post regularly in the MRH forums.
http://www.mrdccu.com/
With DCC, do not make assumptions. There are Gotchas as you will find out.
Ask here or Google.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
There are at least three systems out there where wiring is not needed. Wireless and battery operated and for HO scale.
Couple companies are releasing a Bluetooth system next year.
Digital control of model trains is advancing almost every day.
Be careful of mixing MTH which is DCS with DCC. There are issues. You will find out.
The NCE Power Cab should be all you need for a while.
All systems have manuals online and the advertisement is pretty clear if you take your time reading.
Bachmann DCC controllers. The EZ Command is very basic, old school. The Dynamis is infra red, line of sight.
cowman As for DCC, the different brands don't mix. Richard
As for DCC, the different brands don't mix.
Not quite true.
Any NMRA type decoders (installed in locomotives) can be used with most major brands of DCC systems. In other words, you don't have to use only NCE decoders with an NCE DCC system. (NCE systems are made in the USA, not in China.)
If your locomotives have all wheel drive and all wheel pick up, they are good canidates for conversion to DCC. BUT, you may have to solder the decoders in which means working with tiny wires.
Here is a link to a very basic explanation of DCC in plain language.
http://waynes-trains.com/site/dcc/basics.html
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
As I tend to go against the grain (as I do things many years before they become the norm), go dead rail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi,
I am a relatively recent convert to DCC. I did a huge amount of studying beforehand and had to pre-conceived notions or bias.
It came down to two vendors......... NCE and Digitrax. I went with Digitrax for the system, and NCE for decoders.
Why? It was really a system toss-up. I finally chose Digitrax because I liked the looks of their grey system enclosures. I chose NCE for the bulk of the decoders as they had the most that fit my loco roster.
Only advice I have......... Use LOTS of feeders!!!!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Maxman, thanks for your informative reply. Sorry about the mis use of the wording "Sound card", should have said sound decoder, but just learning. I think I have decided to go with MRC Wireless. I do not want to get something that is upgradeable later, as I know I really want the wireless, so might as well bite the bullet now and buy what I really want. The MRC unit is financially a stretch, but the NCE is just too unaffordable now. I will also by a locomotive built for DCC, and consider converting one of my Atherns just to see what the process entails.
Thanks.
Batman, thanks for the link to the site. I had already found it.
Richard, thanks for the info. There are tow HO clubs in the "area'. I haven't been to either one, but one has NCE and the other Digitrax. I'll get there someday, but the closest one has a membership fee of $17.50 per month. I did visit an "O" gauge club that is really nice, but I have no intention of going to "O" and their annual fee is $150. I have other hobbies (cars) and being disabled, just can't swing those fees, but they do have open houses, so I will visit to get ideas. there is a Greenburg show in the area this weekend so I will go and try and get a deal on an MRC wireless unit and a DCC locomotive.
Mister Beasley, thanks for the welcome and info. A question about converting DC to DCC. All my blocks are insulated on one rail only (except reverse loops and wyes). To convert, must both rails be insulated. I have seperate power running to both rails of each block. I understand about all switches to one cab. When I saw how the locmotive runs, the sounds it makes, and the steam on a steam loco, i was thrilled...like a little kid.
Rich, thanks for the link. I'll check it out. I am sure I will learn by doing. I remember the first reverse loop I installed. I really did not think about the electrical complications. All I wanted to do was get the train running the opposite direction. I fried a cheap powerpack by the time I figured out what I did. That gotcha moment was really a tuning point for me a long time ago. Since then the electrics is what hooked me. Looking forward to learning about DCC, hands on.
Richg1998, thanks for the info. I have decided on an MRC wireless unit.
gandydancer 19, thanks for the info and link. I think I will try to convert one of my locos to DCC, and decide from that if I will attempt to convert others.
rrebell, what is dead rail?
Mobilman44, thanks for the advice. I think I am going to MRC wireless. when you say "feeders" I assume you mean connections to the track.
Phils2888 rrebell, what is dead rail?
Using no power to the track and supplying power from a battery carried either in the engine or an attached car. Wireless control for operation.
Joe