Although I bought a Broadway Limited NYC Hudson 4-6-4 steam loco a few year ago, I was never able to get it to operate very well. It turns out that there where design flaws with that loco and Broadway had me return it to them, much to my chagrin as I had modified the loco to look like the Timken Northern that Northern Pacific had purchased from Timken as they liked how the loco worked. I made the loco look like 4-8-4 N.P. 2626, even though it was still only a 4-6-4. I wanted a sound equipped loco, to see if I thought sound was important.
Anyway, I have now purchased a Walthers USRA 0-8-0 in N.P. livery and I like how this locomotive works. However, I am still not convinced I need sound equipped locos.
So, the question for me is: I would need to be installing sound decoders in my locos if I decide I want sound and wonder which sound decoder people feel to provide the best bang for the buck?
If I could figure out how to make this a poll, I would.
Mark
[post edited by Kalmbach staff]
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I favor Soundtraxx Tsunamies. I have a couple of other brands except for Digitrax. The others can load different sounds, but once they are installed in the loco, why would you want to change sounds?
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I've standardized on Loksound. To the point of getting their programmer to change the sounds.
Why?
Cost less than Tsunami
Better motor control
No worries on stock - there are only Selects, Select Directs, and Select Micros. Any sound project can be loaded in any decoder. no waiting for a TSU-AT1000 with 645 prime mover to get back in stock.
No program track booster needed
Very recent up to date sound recordings - they've recently done fresh recordings of everything
You can modify the sounds yourself - worked well for my PCM T-1, another modeler had recordings he made of the American Freedom Train so was able to put together a Loksound file that used the actual bell, whistle, and auxiliaries from that loco, instead of generics. The cool thing is, you don;t HAVE to do this at all. Only if you want to.
Loksound Micros do not have the overheating issues of Micro-Tsunami, and are smaller.
Pretty much covers it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi NP2626:
I'm with Randy on Loksound.
As he said, Loksound Select is usually cheaper than Tsunami (you don't need the fancier Loksound versions unless you are really into customizing your sound).
Perhaps the best quality for someone who is just getting into sound decoders is that Loksound works properly right out of the box. They do have a built in fine tuning procedure to allow the decoders to adjust themselves to the running charactaristics of your specific locomotive. The procedure is very simple, in fact the decoder does almost all of the fine tuning by itself. However, even without using the self tuning, the decoders will perform quite well without having to play with CVs. About the only thing you might have to play with is the locomotive address. Even that can be left at the factory default of 3 if you don't have any other locomotives on the track with the same setting.
Having said that, I would suggest that you might want to turn the master sound volume down significantly before you judge the quality of the sound. The factory setting is full volume which is quite often loud enough to grate on your nerves. I turn my diesel Loksounds down to less than half. It involves one CV only (CV 63) and it is easy to play with. I don't know if the same thing is true for the steam decoders.
One other thing worth noting is that Loksound is becoming the decoder of choice for more and more locomotive manufacturers. There has to be a reason for that.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
What Randy and Dave said ....
I'm a Loksound devotee as well.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Sign me up for the Loksound camp as well. I regret buying so many Athearn Genesis engines with Tsunamis. The prime mover is OK but their horn sound file is awful, to my ear.
I don't have any Loksound equipped steam engines to date.
I am anxious to hear the as yet to be released TCS WOWSound diesel decoder.
I have about six of their WOWSound steam decoders and I am very pleased with them. They take a bit of getting used to and the programming has a bit of a learning curve using the talking menus (I haven't downloaded the latest version of Decoder Pro yet but I think there is better WOWsound support there?)
So if you are talking STEAM my vote goes to TCS WOWSound. Motor control is superb as well. By default they have too much momentum for my taste (you are supposed to use F7 to apply the brakes)
Good Luck, Ed
For me, Tsunami is the best for NG steam. It is sort of their specialty and no one touches NG steam sound like Tsunami.
Can't speak for Diesel sound as I don't run them.
The Tsunami sound used in common market products, and I have friends who have some, is concatonated over their higher priced, premiere sound decoders. (A lot of bells and whistles not there...excuse the pun...)
It is all about price point to a manufacturer. Offer them a cheaper sound decoder that they think will pass and they will slap it in there.
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
This Sound debate will go on forever as one persons hearing is way different from anothers - just as everyone layout is different.
And this comparison of engines on U-Tube is a joke at best.
NOT one I have found yet will compair the sound decoders in the exact same engine.
They will have vastly different engines and speaker combinatiions to promot their favorate Sound Decoder and put poor speakers etc in the other to make the others look bad - or do not optmize the install and then report that this Sound decoder sounds like crap - etc.
We finally did a side by side compairson of the top three sound decoders LOC - Soundtaxx and Titan
All using the exact same diesel engine - each sound decoder was optmized for the best sound - where the sound could be altered by loading in new sounds we did.
All were run for a number of modelers to hear and then the decoder was pulled and the other plugged in.
So there was none of this different body styles to change or enhance the sounds of one brand over the other.
I have always liked the Soundtraxx as they sound chrisper in the sounds - not muffled.
The LOC sound was very good sounding as was the Titan.
Each one was tried and the many modelers listened and as I stated EVERYONE had a different opinion about each of the 3 sound decoders.
There was NO Clear winner - as I stated SOUND is in the ear of the beholder - so taking advice from others about sound - and YOU NOT hearing the sound for your self - YOU are being fooled by others OPINIONS!
We then changed the TITAN over to Emulatiuon Mode - NOW the listeners were surprised and their attitudes changed as which one was the best.
Again - it is all how they are set up - and the Digitrax Sound decoders need the sound reworked in them too to optimize them with the speakers.
If you are not willing to spend time tweaking the Sound decoders - then expect to get poor sound or less then you can get!
99% of the modelers out there won't waste the time learning how to rework the sound and then spout off on the forums how poorly this sound decoder is over another -
If you want to believe Opinion then have at it - otherwise some amount of experimentation is in order and few will spend the time to get the most out of a sound decoder - so what real help is it as ALL of the sound decoders make noise - only the owner can make them make music!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
cmrproductsAll using the exact same diesel engine - each sound decoder was optmized for the best sound - where the sound could be altered by loading in new sounds we did. All were run for a number of modelers to hear and then the decoder was pulled and the other plugged in. So there was none of this different body styles to change or enhance the sounds of one brand over the other.
I agree with your method, except for the pulling the decoder and plugging in another. To me the ideal way would have been to use different decoders in otherwise identical models.
I can't speak for everyone else, but I find I have trouble "remembering" what something sounded like relative to something else without listening to them side by side. I can see that if there is a drastic difference, like the horn pulls a vacuum, then that might be obvious. But if your talking about a combination of sounds, that makes remembering a little more complicated.
Oh yeah, guess that was sort of covered by the "superior motor control" but I didn't mention the Loksound self-adjustment for the BEMF.
Also the shutdown/startup on F8 by default, not the "e-stop" (at least with Digitrax) which I think I pressed maybe once in my life when I first got my system just to see how it worked.
It also seems more manufacturers are switching to Loksound. And the ones that have, are using the full decoder, not some feature stripped 'value' version.
Another attempt to sart a flame war, argument, etc. lol
The best is what you like best. Many factors can come into play. As decoders evolve, some company will find ways to improve. Try running a decoder company.
You might say the Tsunami is old school.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 Another attempt to sart a flame war, argument, etc. lol Rich
Not at all, I asked a question that I knew people would have differing opinions about. I expect (and I ask) that we should be able to give our opinions without Flame Wars! Anything more than a simple individual's opinion will have no weight in my survey, so please, take the high road! I certainly will do my best to do the same.
Thank you to those who have already give their's!
I like Tsunami for lots of reasons
1. F11 braking, this really adds a lot to the loco operations and with steam in particular
2. Great coasting, and load up sounds
3. Great whistles if you like the ones they have available. Just listen to them on the website.
4. I can get one to crawl with not a lot of work so no worries there.
5. The equalizer can make the sounds change dramatically and adjust for your speaker install and the sound that best fits what you want to sound good to YOU.
6. With Loksound or Tsunami's the recordings/sound are good so the install and speakers in particular are the critical element. I use two HBs in steamers, one in the tender and one in the smokebox. I only have them on about 20% volume for a large room and you can hear everything.
7. I don't like the hassle with programming sound files and Soundtraxx will reprogram the sound fiels if I want them too. Plus I don't have to pay for a programmer and spend the time learning about it's protocols, etc when I can be running trains and scratch building. BTW, I'm just finishing up my first Polar Express car to go with the loco. The Lionel units don't have the lettering in the right place btw.
8. I've never had any problems programming CVs on my Tsunami's using DecoderPro and a program track with booster.
I like the TCS WOW for steam but use the QSI titan for Diesels. Just my 2 cents.
Sam
Mark!
You have a golden opportunity here (hear?). You can answer this eternal question once and for all! All you need to do is buy a bunch of identical engines and put one of each of the different manufacturers' decoders in the locos. Same speakers in all.
Then you will have been the first person to have definatively compared the decoders under truly controlled circumstances!
Your word will become law! The losing mfrs can expect to go out of business very soon!!.
Forget the expense! Think of the service you are doing for your fellow steam modellers. Your name will live on in the history of model railroading (or at least for a week or two).
Sorry, I couldn't resist the opportunity to play the fool. I hope you're not annoyed. No, I won't help you buy the locos and decoders should you decide to go ahead. And, no, you won't solve the debate even if you did do the tests.
NP2626So, the question for me is: I would need to be installing sound decoders in my locos if I decide I want sound and wonder which sound decoder people feel to provide the best bang for the buck?
I see you are not asking for the "best", which is good since everyone's ears are different. The motor performance of a decoder might be a big consideration. I love the control the new Walthers Proto-Heritage 0-8-0 has. I've been using it on the big museum layout and it has performed flawlessly.
I've always contended that the more important thing with the sound of sound decoders is not the decoder but the speakers. Poor speakers or poorly installed speakers will make the best sound units sound like junk.
Where ever possible I use Phoenix Sound units, but they only fit in the largest HO scale models. Of my fleet I could not tell you which sound unit is most common. I've never counted by sound decoder brand. I would guess QSI, with the old Soundtraxx DDx type coming in 2nd. Before that it was PFM sound. I've been into sound since 1981.
hon30critter Mark! You have a golden opportunity here (hear?). You can answer this eternal question once and for all! All you need to do is buy a bunch of identical engines and put one of each of the different manufacturers' decoders in the locos. Same speakers in all. Then you will have been the first person to have definatively compared the decoders under truly controlled circumstances! Your word will become law! The losing mfrs can expect to go out of business very soon!!. Forget the expense! Think of the service you are doing for your fellow steam modellers. Your name will live on in the history of model railroading (or at least for a week or two). Sorry, I couldn't resist the opportunity to play the fool. I hope you're not annoyed. No, I won't help you buy the locos and decoders should you decide to go ahead. And, no, you won't solve the debate even if you did do the tests. Dave
Not a likely scenario from my perspective. Remember I asked: "Bang for the Buck". This has the connotation; meaning not wanting to spend every last penny I have to equip the locomotives on my roster. However, I think someone should do this as your right it would make them the foremost authority! Just think how much weight that wouldn’t pull!
Somehow I suspected that you would not be sucked into my nepharious scheme.
Even if somebody did do it, I suspect that you are right about "the weight it wouldn't pull".
hon30critter Mark! Somehow I suspected that you would not be sucked into my nepharious scheme. Even if somebody did do it, I suspect that you are right about "the weight it wouldn't pull". Dave
The impetus for my original post on this topic has been successful. It is a resource for the study of any sound decoder purchases I might contemplate. At some point in time I was given to believe that SoundTraxx was the industry leader, for Narrow Gauge, as Mike has said, I can believe this to be true as SoundTraxx is located right there in Durango Colorado with access to operating narrow gauge steam equipment they can compare their decoders too. However, I also knew that other competitors were giving SoundTraxx a run for the money!
So, in addition to my original question, I should have asked if a Program Track Booster is necessary for any of the other sound decoders produces equipment?
I'm pretty happy with most of my sound decoders. Disclaimer: I am not an audiophile. Some claim they can tell the difference between gold-tipped #12 stereo speaker wires and plain old zip cord. I can't.
I like the sound from both the Soundtraxx and LokSound decoders I have. I like my QSI engines, too, but I think the others are nicer. While my Bachmann "sound value" engines with their budget Soundtraxx decoders aren't as good, they still are fine with me.
I have a number of older Digitrax 8-bit sound decoders. They're kind of disappointing. I have not tried their newer 16-bit ones.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
My having owned a Digitrax system, I am disapointed that they don't seem to have much following in the sound department.
However, like you, Mr. Beasly, I am fairly easily pleased as far as sound is concerned.
I installed a Digitrax SFX0416 decoder in a trolley. I liked it because I could download a "sound project" file and install it. At the time, no one made a sound decoder for a trolley, so I was very happy with this option.
Unfortunately, that decoder itself suffers from pitiful sound volume. Even cranked up all the way, it's barely audible, even over it's own running noise, and with other engines in operation it can't be heard.
Digitrax claims more volume out of its newer 16-bit models.
Hi Mark:
FWIW, I have an NCE Powercab and so far it has successfully programmed every decoder I own without a need for a programming booster. That includes Tsunamis, older Soundtrax LCs, QSIs, Bachmann Sound On Board, and a couple different versions of Loksound.
Really, manufactures switching to LokSound? Does that include Athearn Genesis and Walthers?
Not yet, but it does include Atlas and Intermountain and Bowser.
rrinkerNot yet, but it does include Atlas and Intermountain and Bowser.
If the Product News section of the latest issue of RMC is to be believed, Atlas "introduces Digital Comand Control and QSI Quantum System sound to its HO-scale Trainman GP38-2 and GP39-2 diesel models for early 2015 release".
I was not able to find this information on the Atlas website to confirm.
Atlas always was QSI, last holdout after Walthers switched. Maybe they are only going to use Loksound where they need a smaller decoder - QSI doesn't make a decoder small enough for an Alco switcher, but the Loksounds are more than small enough. The 38-2 on the Atlas site does say QSI. But the more recent announcement of the Dash 8's shows Loksound. The 38-2 is a Trainman model, the Dash 8 is a Master series - maybe they got a really good deal from QSI so the lower end model gets the QSI and the higher end ones get Loksound.
If you look at the previous announcements - the Master Series H16-44 just says "sound equipped" but all Master Series since then say Loksound - the AEM-7, GP40-2, S-2, and the Dash 8.