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Using a DCC controller with DC locos

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  • Member since
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Posted by joe323 on Friday, December 5, 2014 7:15 AM

You may be able to find the Bachmann system for $50 at a train show. I do not use it often but I cut a gap in the rail on one of my sidings to make a small section that I use every so often to store a DC Loco ( a toggle switch powers it on and off).  Mostly though my DC locos have retired to the static shelf.

Joe Staten Island West 

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, December 5, 2014 6:33 AM

Baggio mused:

Sorry, Rich, but that is Greek to me :-(

I like it.  As a life-long nerd, it's geek to me.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Baggio on Thursday, December 4, 2014 10:39 PM

OK, Rich. I promise to read the article again, I di read it quickly...) and I'll let you know if my "Greek" has improved. Wink

Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:

 https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club

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Posted by dante on Thursday, December 4, 2014 10:39 PM

As noted by others, my Zephyr Xtra allows me to run one DC loco at a time (even with another DCC loco running on another throttle). I had 3 such DC locos: 2 brass and one very old original Varney Docksider with a new NWSL can motor. All ran okay with minimum noise and for more than just a few minutes with no ill effects. They would also idle for extended periods with no ill effects, not even creeping (again, only one at a time on the rails). Eventually, I added decoders to the brass and set aside two storage tracks where the Docksider can rest for extended periods because I can kill the power to each.

Dante

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Posted by Baggio on Thursday, December 4, 2014 10:37 PM

This is an extraordinary bit of news for me, Ret.

This means I can buy a DCC loco or tram, use it NOW and if and when I can splurge on a DCC controller, I already have the locos.

Thank you for the tip!! Big Smile

Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:

 https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, December 4, 2014 9:42 PM

Baggio
Sorry, Rich, but that is Greek to me :-(
 

Not at all. You must have read too fast. The complete explanation is there. There are examples, not opinions.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, December 4, 2014 9:40 PM

Baggio
Where do you find a Bachmann controller for $50.00, on the moon? :-) The best I have seen it on sale is $120..
 

Ebay. I have seen them more than once. They are very old school.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by retsignalmtr on Thursday, December 4, 2014 9:31 PM

Most decoders are set up for dual mode operation. Which means the decoder works normally on DCC, but it will also run on a DC layout without problems. Early decoders were set up to run on only DCC. If you buy a used loco the anolog (DC) function may have been turned off by a previous owner so it will only run on DCC. You will need a DCC system to turn the anolog function back on.

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Posted by Baggio on Thursday, December 4, 2014 9:11 PM
Sorry, Rich, but that is Greek to me :-(

Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:

 https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club

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Posted by Baggio on Thursday, December 4, 2014 9:09 PM
Where do you find a Bachmann controller for $50.00, on the moon? :-) The best I have seen it on sale is $120..

Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:

 https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, December 4, 2014 9:06 PM

Everyone, put the below link in Favorites. Take a look. Put this link in any future messages to someone who wants to run a DC loco on zero bit. A picture is worth a thousand words.

I did the same measuremnts with a Scope.

http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/DCC-waveforms/DCC_waveforms.html

Rich

 

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Kyle on Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:39 PM

Baggio

Hello:

I have a fairly big collection of DC locos but would like to tip toe into DCC without having to throw out my DC locos or have to switch between one platform and the other. There is a DCC controller that says you can do just that, no. 10 on the list of 10 buttons.

Is it safe to do so? Can I use both a DCC loco and a DC loco without problems?

 

Thanks.

 

I remember reading that someone bought an audio jack from radio shack, and then had plugs attached to the DCC system, and DC power.  He simply plugged in the system he wanted to use.  

I have thought about DC vs DCC.  I will upgrade all of my locomotives when I go DCC.

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Posted by mfm37 on Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:21 PM

Leaving a DC engine sitting on DCC powered track can damage the engine. You will hear a pronounced buzz. That's because DCC is AC and the motor will be trying to spin alternately in both directions thousands of times a second. This causes the motor to heat up and can eventually overheat. Many motors can take the abuse. Some can't. Trouble is no one knows how to tell which ones can't take it.

Sounds like you are thinking of the Bachmann DCC controller. (That address 10 thing gives it away). If you can get one for less than $50 you probably haven't overspent for what is an extremely limited DCC system. More than $50 you overpaid.

Martin Myers

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Posted by Baggio on Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:48 PM
Thank you. This is a useful suggestion. :-).

Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:

 https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club

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Posted by steamnut on Thursday, December 4, 2014 6:07 PM

I strongly recommend against running your DC locos from a DCC throttle / system. You'll almost certainly end up damaging them.

I am still in the process of switching over. My solution was that I retain the DC throttles, and added the DCC. With just a bit of thouht, I have set up the wiring so that I can toggle between the two systems. There also is a fail-safe that makes it impossible for both to be connected to the rails at the same time. This means of course that at any given time I can only run the DCC locos OR the DC locos. Not an issue to me because the sound quality of the sound systems that everybody else seems to be in love with, must become much better before it has any appeal to me.

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Posted by Baggio on Monday, December 1, 2014 8:12 PM

Thanks to all of you who provided helpful feedback. Big Smile

I gather that the best approach is NOT to mix the two.

 

Out of curiosity, if I put a DC loco on a DCC layout without trying to use a DC function, the DC loco does not move, as it appears from the answers, but does doing this hurt the loco at all? 

 

What about the other way around, putting a DCC loco on a DC layout? What happens. Does this hurt the DCC loco?

I ask these questions because on a Marklin digital layout, you can run an analogue loco, but without any control and at a lower speed than it would otherwise. Once you pout it on, it takes off and the only way to stop it is to shut off the power.

 

 

 

Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:

 https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club

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Posted by ruderunner on Monday, December 1, 2014 5:13 PM

Baggio

Hello:

I have a fairly big collection of DC locos but would like to tip toe into DCC without having to throw out my DC locos or have to switch between one platform and the other. There is a DCC controller that says you can do just that, no. 10 on the list of 10 buttons.

Is it safe to do so? Can I use both a DCC loco and a DC loco without problems?

 

Thanks.

 

this sounds like a perfect place to try one of the bachman DCC starter sets.  Loop of track and a loco and controller for not much money.  I'm not sure if any of these sets come with sound though.

Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, December 1, 2014 2:29 PM

The Lenz DCC system also allows you to run a DC engine as "Engine Zero."  But, it's not terribly satisfactory.  In fact, I would only use it to test an engine and verify that it moves in both directions.

My experience has been that the engine does buzz rather loudly, and even at full throttle it will only maintain about half the speed it's actually capable of.  Auto-reverse systems, one of the nice features of DCC, will not work on a DC engine.

How many engines are you talking about converting, and how well do they run on DC?  If an engine doesn't run well on DC, it will be even worse on DCC.  You can buy bulk-packs of budget decoders for about $15 each, maybe less.

I was hooked on DCC from the start.  I put my old DC power pack on a shelf and never connected it to the track again.  You may feel the same way.

Jim noted:

Once you have run a nice DCC/Sound engine, you will not turn back!

Again, I've got to agree.  After building a small roster of DCC-equipped diesels, I fell in love not just with the siren song of DCC Sound, but at the same time with the beauty of Steam.  I quickly found that my non-sound engines could be found gathering dust in the roundhouse while my sound locomotives were having all the fun.  So, I've been upgrading DCC engines to sound decoders this time around.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by jrbernier on Monday, December 1, 2014 11:11 AM

  Some DCC systems(like Digitrax) allow 'Zero Stretching' of the signal.  This allows one to run a DC locomotive on a DCC layout.  The problem is that it causes the DC engine to 'buzz' when stopped, as it is basically reversing the direction constantly. This can cause the motor to overheat.

  The other issue is related to clubs.  Zero Stretching can tie up the DCC bandwidth and throittle response can suffer across the layout when a DC engine and DCC engines are used at the same time.  In your case(home layout), it should be no problem.

  The Digitrax DCS51, Zephyr Xtra can be had for around $175 from Internet dealers.  Myself, I found that a lot of my DC engines were not worth upgrading to DCC and have become 'Wall Flowers' in a display case.  Once you have run a nice DCC/Sound engine, you will not turn back!

Jim

 

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, December 1, 2014 10:31 AM

The Bachmann EZ Command will allow using number 10 but that system cannot do much else. Some have found that out too late.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by retsignalmtr on Monday, December 1, 2014 10:04 AM

Digitrax is I believe the only DCC system that allows running a DC loco on its DCC systems using the address of 0. It is called zero stretching and most DC locos will run on it. It is not recommended running DC locos for any length of time and you cannot let a DC loco sit idle on DCC powered track with the power on. The motor makes a sound called singing and will get very warm and the loco will creep along on its own. You can even MU them to decoder equiped locos but their performance will not be the same as they are not speed matchable. You can run them occasionally for short periods until you get around to installing decoders.

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, December 1, 2014 9:59 AM

I did this some years ago with an old MRC 2000. Very basic system.

I knew the limitations. Just parked the DC loco on a siding. 

I could run one loco as a pusher. Worked quite well actually. The MRC 2K had five throttles. The #1 throttle was for DC or DCC.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Monday, December 1, 2014 9:16 AM

Don't do it. Just convert all your DC locos to DCC or just stay DC.

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, December 1, 2014 9:10 AM

Baggio

Hello:

I have a fairly big collection of DC locos but would like to tip toe into DCC without having to throw out my DC locos or have to switch between one platform and the other. There is a DCC controller that says you can do just that, no. 10 on the list of 10 buttons.

Is it safe to do so? Can I use both a DCC loco and a DC loco without problems?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Right out of the MR forums.

The forum will not allow me to make it a hyper link.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/224993.aspx

Read the below article.

http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/DCC-waveforms/DCC_waveforms.html

Rich

 

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Using a DCC controller with DC locos
Posted by Baggio on Saturday, November 29, 2014 11:26 PM

Hello:

I have a fairly big collection of DC locos but would like to tip toe into DCC without having to throw out my DC locos or have to switch between one platform and the other. There is a DCC controller that says you can do just that, no. 10 on the list of 10 buttons.

Is it safe to do so? Can I use both a DCC loco and a DC loco without problems?

 

Thanks.

Here is my club - started recently - we had one nice "Marklin" show at a senior citizens' home last fall (2015) and it went well:

 https://sites.google.com/site/modeltrainslovers/toronto-model-trains-fun-club

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