hi
i have my eye on blma overhead double track signal i'm thinking of getting and also block detecter seem neat. now i been watching youtube video on signal systemslike SE8C Signal Decoder but i see that some of these systems in video are hook up to pc or laptop. question is pc/laptop optional for signal system?
You do not need a computor to have a signal system. There are stand alone signal controls that work well. You may have to build some type of control system for them, but it is doable. I have installed some automatic three color signals on a couple of N gauge T-Trak modules, using NCE BD-20 current detectors and some miniature 12 volt relays. The cost comes to about $20 per signal not including the signal itself. My circuits are posted somewhere on this site by someone I gave them to. They work independently of DC or DCC track power.
It depends on what you want your signal system to do, and how simple or complex you're willing to go with the wiring needed to achieve that goal.
There are signaling systems that use nothing more than various on/off switches (Tortoise contacts, relays, etc) to give basic signal indications.
But on the other hand, emulating a prototype signal system on a layout with more complex interlockings would be difficult at best to set up in that manner. In that case, a computer-controlled system might be a better choice. Then all you'd need to do is properly locate your signals, and let the compter logic determine the proper aspects.
You can do prototypical signalling without a computer, however not witht he SE8C. The SE8C is a 'dumb' device in that all it really does is turn on the approriate light when you set a specific accessory address on or off - it has no functionality to determine which light should be on, it just turns on the one it is told to turn on. Team Digital makes some boards that allow you to code the logic in the board - no computer needed (although it is VERY useful to have one to program these things - you can read the manuals online). Once configured, it will take the inputs of block detectors and switch positions and determine which signals should display which aspects. Though after reading the manuals on these types of signal controllers, I submit that the computer is the easier way to generate this logic. Remember you don;t need some high end brand new computer. You can get refurb units, old office computers, for $150 or so WITH a display that are plenty powerful enough to run the software like JMRI that makes this possible.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
retsignalmtr The cost comes to about $20 per signal not including the signal itself
Not at all bad, if your layout requires three or four such signals.
Layout of LION requires more than 200 signals, ($4000) which is a non-starter.
LION builds the signals of him out of LEDs and Baswood. Fortunately NYCT type signals are rather simple with no targets on them. Call it about 40c per signal.
What is expensive and complicated are the relays that drive the system.
Thanks to another forum member, most of these relays were donated to me, othewise this system would still be an idea at the back of the LION's mind.
The detectors are reed switches embedded into the tracks with magnets mounted under the subway trains. It takes five conductors to operate each block. These are 1) the detector circuit; 2) the Green; 3) the Yellow; and the 4) Red circuits; and 5) the relay circuit that will hold or release a train according to the signal aspect.
Some of that cable came from an old (1920 vintage) pipe organ that we sold, the buyer left the keyboard cables behind. LION salvaged them, but they are very old with no rubber or plactic insulation. It is all waxed string, and all of the conductors were white. For additional cables I bough over 100 feet of 25 pair cat-3 telephone cable which I found a good deal on.
Sometimes you just have to do what you can do rather than what you would like to do.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Like Randy mentioned, the SE8C is basically a lamp driver, and needs a computer to send it instructions. Using JMRI on an old PC is a great idea for driving that signal system.
I just picked up a less than 3 year old HP mini-tower system/wide screen monitor/printer for $200 - I ran the free upgrade from Win 8 to Win 8.1 and spent an evening reconfiguring it to my liking(old school), including JMRI - Runs great.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Yeah but, once you decide on the computer to drive your signals, there is a whole lot of other stuff it can do for you - turnout control, decoder programming, CTC panels, wi-fi throttles...
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
thanks. i just order blma signal & it in the mail. now i did see youtube video where guy hook up blma signal to toggle 2 way switche on his layout, i been looking around on how you do that and right way cause the led lights can burn out fast if not hook up right. i think i need to have resistors for it to work useing toggle switch. just wondering what wire do i hook up the resister to?
raptorengineer, i been looking around on how you do that and right way cause the led lights can burn out fast if not hook up right.
Hi, Raptor
There are several threads here regarding signals and their use and wiring.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDgQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcs.trains.com%2Fmrr%2Ff%2F11%2Fp%2F242936%2F2705422.aspx&ei=18i3VLnrE4GcNrrpgpgK&usg=AFQjCNHgvDWbV65BVfdd58FXLtpseeF1Qw&sig2=4H2h8G9qn0wEAucTOVigxg&bvm=bv.83829542,d.eXY
Many modelers are looking for a full fledged automatic block or even a CTC system.
I find that actual detection and trying to operate trains by signal indication is very impractical on a model railroad. IF I were to attempt an installation like that the first problem I would have is that almost half of the signals would face a direction that I wouldn't even be able to see them, i.e. aimed at walls or in areas that aren't easily accessable.
So, like so many things on a model RR there has to be a compromise.
Simply using a toggle switch or a built-in Tortoise or switch machine contacts to change the signal is fine but it's only part of the reason we want to "emulate" a working signal system.
I have been using the Logic Rail signal animator to drive nearly all of the signals on my layout. One of the concepts in signaling is the fact that as the train enters the block the signal protection that block will drop to red and stay at red until that train moves into the next block (actually two blocks ahead, in most cases) and this is where I like to use the function of the Signal Animator.
Using the supplied infra red emitter and detector mounted between the ties it detects a car or locomotive passing over and drops the signal to red. You could even use semaphores but these require more hardware. There are photocell models available for a few dollars less.
Once the IR trigger is clear, i.e. the train has passed, a timer counts to 10 or 30 seconds (I always use 30 sec. but if you run a lot of high speed trains the 10 sec might be better) and the signal will go to medium, or yellow. In another 30 seconds it returns to green.
Not exactly prototype but a good compromise, for the cost. Each SA-1 runs about $22-25. It outputs +5 and includes 150Ω resistors. (usually the red LED looks brighter than the Y-G so a higher value resistor might be desired.)
I am currently working on a signal bridge where two main tracks will split into three. Here is the three Logic Rail boards I will mount under the layout (I'm bench testing here)
I'm using a different model SBCA on the left because I have a flashing lamp circuit for one of the signals and this was the best choice for that option for me.
You simply apply AC or DC to two of the bottom terminals, wire in three wires from the IR detectors and the +5 com. and one lead each to R-Y-G and you're done.
The signal bridge this will control has five heads but the lower pair will always show red. If you ground the IR the signal will force to red so you can use your turnout contacts to show switch position.
Tested and ready for painting.
In my case when the turnout is thrown for the diverging route the middle left target will show flashing yellow until the train passes when it will change to red.
IF the turnout was aligned for the main the top head will show green or yellow but drop to red as the train passes.
I think this is a good compromise and gives me just what I want, signal animation, at a fairly reasonable cost.
On the other hand, I do have some dwarf signals that I made for a whopping 25¢ each...
I hope you have fun with your signal. Ed
A Picaxe chip can be programmed in Basic, costs about $3, has 4 ADC inputs and can drive 12 outputs..
It can read photocells or reed switches and drive LEDs without additional circuitry. All they need is a current limiting resistor.
I used them to drive signals on an N-Trak module. They calculate the time between trains, show red for 1/3 of that, yellow for 1/3 and then return to green.