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Simple LED resistor question

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  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, October 31, 2014 8:30 PM

AA alkaline cells are 1800-3000 mAH. So if the resistor is chosen for 10ma LED current, a single AA would last between 180 and 300 hours if left on continuously. If used say 3 hours a week for an operating session and turned off otherwise - a year or two. Not bad.

                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by farrellaa on Friday, October 31, 2014 7:52 PM

I have a cantalever signal with two LED's, one red and one green, and they are powered with a 3 volt coin cell (watch battery) in a single cell holder. I wired it through a toggle and manually switch the signal from red to green. I don't know how long the battery will last but it may work better(last longer) with a AA or AAA alkaline battery. Just a simple way to power an isolated LED.

    -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, October 29, 2014 2:17 PM

NeO6874

 

 
richg1998

The NCE Power Cab has a 3mm red LED with a 1k resistor in the panel that you plug the cab into. The LED and resistor are right across the DCC signal output to the track. No diode. I traced out the circuit.

 

 

 

Actually, it doesn't have it inline with track power,  it's in-line with the input DC rail from the power connector (which just happens to also connect with some of the pins on the RJ45 connectors on the board).  Just traced the leads from a panel I have sitting on my desk here.

 

Also, there's a blue resistor standing on end in between the two front ports, in series with the LED.  Can't read the color bands though, since the one power leg is in the way, looks like it's 1k +/- 1%, but the bands don't stand out enough to call it for certain.

 

I would not say that it is "in-line" with either, since in-line usually means in series (the LED and resistor are in series with each other, but certainly not with the power input or DCC output).  Regardless, however, unless NCE has changed it, I am pretty sure the LED and resistor are across the DCC output.

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Posted by NeO6874 on Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:00 AM

richg1998

The NCE Power Cab has a 3mm red LED with a 1k resistor in the panel that you plug the cab into. The LED and resistor are right across the DCC signal output to the track. No diode. I traced out the circuit.

 

Actually, it doesn't have it inline with track power,  it's in-line with the input DC rail from the power connector (which just happens to also connect with some of the pins on the RJ45 connectors on the board).  Just traced the leads from a panel I have sitting on my desk here.

 

Also, there's a blue resistor standing on end in between the two front ports, in series with the LED.  Can't read the color bands though, since the one power leg is in the way, looks like it's 1k +/- 1%, but the bands don't stand out enough to call it for certain.

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:47 PM

Yeah, the bridge rectifier and capacitor is over kill. If someone wants to power an electronic circuit, then a stand alone power supply is usually a better way to go.

The issue I see is some don't understand electronics and it can get confusing with too much info. Us old times sometimes don't know when to stop. lol

I forget I have been doing electronics since 1953 and have kept up with the times.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by JoeinPA on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:15 PM

Rich:

I couldn't agree more. It's really interesting how we can take a simple question and complicate it to the point of confusion of the questioner.

Joe

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 5:21 PM

It is not work at all. Put the LED, 1k resistor and diode across the rails. Many have done that. Cannot get much simpler.

Rich

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Posted by hwolf on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 5:06 PM

This is starting to sound like work. (Not taking about the doing but the number of differnt answers.).  I think I will just wire it to DC power source.

Harold

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 2:58 PM

Adding a diode. Just use a 1k resistor. Found this picture some time ago.

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Rich

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:52 AM

The NCE Power Cab has a 3mm red LED with a 1k resistor in the panel that you plug the cab into. The LED and resistor are right across the DCC signal output to the track. No diode. I traced out the circuit.

Been working fine for some years.

The Power Cab puts about 13.6 VAC to the track. My multimeter and digital Scope both agree on the voltage.

You can put a diode in series if you prefer. Cheap enough.

A bipolar green/red LED, both diodes with be lit.

Rich

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Posted by NeO6874 on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 9:27 AM

hwolf

OK 

Let me then be clear.

Two LED's  in series with a 1K resistor are fine? Nothing else.

Harold

 

Nope.

You've got voltage flipping between +14 and -14 (or thereabouts) contsantly.  All you'll get with two LEDs wired back to back (both anodes wired to both cathodes) is that both of them will always be lit.

 

Brain's not engaging entirely, and I can't remember how you end up figuring the reverse voltage that the LED sees if it's not lit, given a pair wired together with both anodes connected to both cathodes ... I THINK it's the same as the forward voltage allowed through the lit LED (e.g. 3V) ... but it could be as high as 11 or the full 14V ... 

 

edit -- I mean something like this:

...A>|K
---{    }----(resistor)--- (layout wiring)
...K|<A

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 8:51 AM

LION nose little of DCC. It is not exactly squared off DC. The track power is in fact AC (I think) but is also overlaid with a digital signal (I think that is DC) and it is very much squared off as that is where the 1s and 0s reside. Thousands of signals per second to address every function of every decoder on the pike.

EWE *can* power an LED or more with that bus but you save nothing and can cause problems. LION would leave the DCC alone. Well, LION has no DCC, only DC, but like DCC layouts the power is always on. The Left Rail is GROUNDED and the right rail provides the power (+=forward; -=reverse) but him has no thorttles or reversing switches. Subway trains do not run backwards, you know. Resistors and gaps imbedded in the tracks provide contol to the trains.

But I digress, even with big 12 amp regulated supply to the tracks, LION would not tap pwer from it for other applications. GROUND wire (NOT FLAOTING COMMON) is available everywere on the layout. A secong +12v dc circuit is availabel for all LED and other applications. It is cheap and was installed to placate the Tortoise switch machines anyway.

Thes LION tells ewe, PUT an utility bus on your system, it is cheap and you are done with it.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by hwolf on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 8:14 AM

OK 

Let me then be clear.

Two LED's  in series with a 1K resistor are fine? Nothing else.

Harold

 

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 7:26 AM

 DCC alternates about a common 0 base point, going both positive and negative relative to that base.

 The ~10ma draw of an LED with a 1K resistor will not materially affect the train running current.  You change it by 10ma every time you turn the headlight on and off in a loco with an LED headlight, and by 15-30ma when you turn the light on and off in a loco with an incandescent bulb headlight.

 Just don't make a habit of it and start driving all your structure lights off track power just because it's convenient. 100 such LEDs and now you're sucking up 1 amp of DCC power. And a booster is a lot more expensive than a plain power supply.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by hwolf on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 7:02 AM

Now I am getting confused. Isn't DCC a squared off DC power not AC.

The switch is a Custom Atlas (insulated Frog) I run all my turnouts and LED's from a DC power source.  As I only wanted to add LED's and not change the control I figured I might be able to steal it from the track. I am going to look into that cabosse control.

If this idea can not be done simply I will just wire it to the DC.

Harold

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:40 AM

I'd also try to keep my DCC bus for trains only, but a single LED isn't going to use much power.

Is this a DCC installation?  The OP did not specify his control system.  If it's DC, the polarity will be direction-dependent and might require a different solution.

What kind of turnout is it?  If it's power-routing, then you might be able to take advantage of that to control the signal rather than doing it manually.  If you're using Caboose ground throws, consider one with contacts so that throwing the turnout will also flip the signal.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 5:31 AM

Personally, I leave the DCC bus to the trains, and I run all of my signal and control panel LEDs off of a DC power supply.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by NeO6874 on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 5:20 AM

yeah, you'd need a at least an additional diode (or possibly better yet, bridge rectifier) in there so as protect the LED from the reverse-voltage generated by the "AC" coming from your DCC system.

other than that, there's nothing stopping you from pulling power off the track bus for indicator power.

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, October 28, 2014 5:15 AM

JoeinPA

You can power an LED from the DCC bus but you must include a resistor (1K or so) in series with the LED.

Joe

 

To further protect the LED from too much reverse voltage, wouldn't you want to add a diode?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by RideOnRoad on Monday, October 27, 2014 11:27 PM

Don't you also need a rectifier?

Richard

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Posted by JoeinPA on Monday, October 27, 2014 6:47 PM

You can power an LED from the DCC bus but you must include a resistor (1K or so) in series with the LED.

Joe

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Simple LED resistor question
Posted by hwolf on Monday, October 27, 2014 4:55 PM

I have a manual turnout at the end of the yard.  I have just added a siding that will feed into that turnout. I want to add LED lights to be thrown manually with a simple SPST switch to indicate the path to me. Here is my question.

Can I take the power from the Bus Wires and if so would I need a resistor in the circuit?

Harold

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