I recently repainted my BLI NW2. I completely removed everything from the frame for paint. I assembled everything to test it out and now it runs crummy. Stalls requently and not very smooth at all. I believe it might be a pickup issue.
I was thinking of adding some silver conductive grease to where the pickup touchs the wheels. I was wondering what peoples experience is with conductive grease and if this might be a good solution.
I don't use grease for this, I use CRC 2-26 contact cleaner and lube. It's made specifically for this sort of thing and takes just a tiny drop for things like this. Also works great on improving contact with the rail by putting enough to wet the end of a cork, then rubbing the track and letting dry overnight.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I use No-Ox on wiper contacts and pick ups on all my equipment. Just the very thinnest film.
I do the same thing as Mike, except I use WD-40. However, the CRC 2-26 is a better product if you can get it.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
All surfaces need to be squeaky clean first. if the engine is stalling, conductive grease won't make it better. Conductive grease will help keep a clean surface from getting dirty.
Amen on the squeaky clean! But Booo on the CRC stuff. Spray can have such poor control, and cost too much for what you get. I use Dexron II or III automatic trans fluid. Apply it with a toothpick. It wont hurt plastic, has a high detergent level, lubricates well, never cakes up, and can also be used to keep your tracks clean. And a quart at the dollar store will last years without breaking the bank.
Karl
NCE über alles!
Take the shell off and look for a loose or broken connection. The key to this is disassembly and reassembly. You didn't do anything that conductive grease will fix.
In particular, get a meter and check continuity between all the pickup wheels on each side as you wiggle the trucks. All wheels should be connected to each other on each side.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
CRC 2-26 is available at Home Despot.
kbkchoochBut Booo on the CRC stuff. Spray can have such poor control, and cost too much for what you get.
I suppose it could if used wastefully. But you never spray this stuff directly on the tracks. That would be a disasterous "hazmat" incident in those quantities.
What you do with this stuff is take a small container -- metal or glass works best -- and "decant" or spray it briefly into the jar. You only need enough to wet the end of the cork, for instance. You don't even really want a pool across the bottom of the jar, just enough to wet things when swished around. For spot applications, like between points and the stock rails, I'll take a small stick, like a popsicle stick, and wet the end in the CRC. Putting a lid back on the container will help keep it clean, but I've had it in open jars and seen it stay liquid for months, so there's not a lot of evaporation.
I've only ever owned one can of the stuff. After 4 years, it's starting to look like a lifetime supply for under $5.
I like ATF for this application too as well as rails. But prefer a full syntehtic like Mobil 1 ATF since it's easy on plastic. CRC2-26 is an excellent cleaner as is WD-40, but not sure how plastic friendly they are.
Richard
Conductive Grease ???
I see a lot mof mysterious electrical gremlins in your future.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Train ModelerCRC2-26 is an excellent cleaner as is WD-40, but not sure how plastic friendly they are.
Richard,
I suppose it might have potential to damage some plastics, especially when first sprayed. The quantities used are so minute and on the track, mostly, that it shouldn't be an issue. I know it doesn't bother anything plastic on the track like ties, gap insulators, etc.
Applying it directly to equipment would be the best chance for it to damage something and I've noticed nothing there. I have a lot of passenger car lighting and apply the CRC to wipers and axles without issues.
flyn96 I was wondering what peoples experience is with conductive grease and if this might be a good solution.
I believe you are refering to thermal conductive grease, which is used in heat sink applications. This grease, depending on the brand may have some metal particles suspended in it. But do you really want to use this where metal rubs metal? Dielectric grease is used to prevent water intrusion and as a lubricant / release agent but it would not be my first choice.
The absolute best connection is clean, bare metal. If wear or corrosion are a concern, a lubricant / corrosion inhibitior is what you want. The 2/26 is a fine product and I would use that.
Jim
The mention of "silver conductive grease" makes me think the same thing - like Arctic Silver used for computer heat sinks. Do NOT use this stuff on your loco.
If it doesn;t run so well after taking it apart, perhaps you knocked a wire off. Especially on the plug in the tender. Or just have one pushed through the plastic shell, so istead of going on to the pin when you plugged it back in, it pushed that one connector out of the shell.
If it's more of a mechanical hitch, perhaps you twisted the drivers slightly out of quarter, or, if they are still doing it, the front and rear drivers are often sprung, the bearing cap could be the wrong way, or you are missing one of the springs.
Both the electrical connector and the upside-down bearing cap were problems I had right out of the box with one of my PCM T-1's. The loose connector pin caused it to stall where the other one ran fine - basically it was picking up power with both sides of the tender but only one side of the loco, or the other way around, I forget. The messed up bearing jammed one side of the front drivers down enough to slightly lift the next wheel behind it, and made it derail easily where nothing else had a problem. Both easy fixes.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Don't think much of that applies to an NW2 Randy !
I'm of the "clean and dry" camp. ANY kind of liquid, fluid, grease will eventually attract dust and dirt, which eventually gets ground into gunk that accumulates on the contact points and you end up with an even bigger mess to have to clean.
Applying any kind of liquid to improve contact is just putting a band-aid on the problem. It's a quick fix and by no means permanent. I haven't cleaned wheels, axle journals OR track in over ten years now, and I have no contact problems. I've also spent a great deal of time polishing all the metal surfaces (wheels, track, etc.) so I DON'T have any of those problems. And when I say polish - I mean polish. I use a buffing wheel and polishing rouge on my wheels and I've burnished all my track.
Keep the liquid crap away from ANY electrical contact surfaces ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
I believe the discussion is about a Broadway NW2.
I'm not familiar with that loco, but if it uses wipers on the wheels (backs or treads), then there should be some means of taking the current from there to the motor - wires would be the most usual method. If a wiper (usually phosphor bronze or nickel-silver) is making contact with a plated wheel, the problem is unlikely to be at that point - by its very nature, that contact is generally self-cleaning, although can collect debris - usually fuzz of some nature.You say that you removed everything from the frame to allow painting - perhaps you've painted a point or points on the frame which are used to conduct current? The old Athearn Blue Box diesels, for instance, used the truck pivot pins, moulded as part of the metal frame, as electrical contact points. You make no mention of DCC (outside of my knowledge base) so I can't say for sure if your problem may be related to that.
If you've not painted-over an electrical path, then you've either broken something (most likely a wire or a soldered connection) or you've re-assembled something incorrectly.
Wayne
Edit - Sorry, all I had in my mind was NW2 and was thinking Kato ....
Flyn96,
I have used a product called Electrolube. Does wonders for end of axle contact in Bronze bushing/bearings on Athearn Genesis DC engines with great results. Will not harm plastic. Just clean all parts throughly with 91% alcohol before applying. I have used it in many Electrical apps. switches, solenoids and the like:
http://www.electrolube.us.com/products/contact-lubricants/104/21/
Take Care !
Frank
BTW: Also does wonders for capacitor start contacts on any central air conditioner condenser. Stops arcing and welding of contacts without losing it's electrical properties. Learned that tip from the person who sold me the capacitors. Cost me 14.00 for the capacitor, instead of paying a service man to come out for 150.00 only to replace it again 2yrs later.
Maybe not wheel bearings or quarter, but loose wires ALWAYS apply Gear towers not snapped all the wy on can cause the truck to not sit flat on all wheels, hurting the pickup. Bent pickup when taking it apart or putting it back together. Lots of places for things to go wrong.
28 wheel pick-up works wonders on my railroad.
Double crossovers are just left unpowered, and the train just glides across them.
ROARING for 28 wheel pickup!
Thanks all. The BLI NW2 uses a metal bar that contacts the outside of the wheel face. This bar has a wire attached and is then directly attached to the decoder. I did remove the entire gear tower/truck mechnism so as not to get paint anywhere near the point of contact. I wil try a good cleaning and let you know if I get any better results.
Google Lubricant and Cleaner CONDUCTIVE by Aero-Car.
Litchfield Station a well known DCC site uses it in any of their DCC convesion locos.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998Google Lubricant and Cleaner CONDUCTIVE by Aero-Car.
I've heard good things about Aerocar. Blackstone recommends it for use on their stuff, for instance. But every time I try to buy some, their website thinks my credit cards are flaky and they don't take paypal, so...no testing here on that yet, although I do have a bottle of their track cleaner I picked up somewhere. It's what I use in my Centerlines on the rare occassions I get them out.
The topic that brings me back here tonight is another specialized lubricant I use for certain applications, Neolube No. 2, Lubricant, Colloidal, Graphite in Isopropanol. Sounds like it could be GI issue and the very first use listed is "Anti-seize lubricant source of graphite film for nuclear applications." Hmmm.
Other uses include as a "conductive lubricant for electrical contacts" -- just what the OP was looking for, although this is a very thin suspension that dries to a film instead of a grease.
Neolube No. 2 is fairly well-known in the narrowgauge community, as it's often used to blacken side rods on brass locos. The thing to be aware of is that it works as advertised. Electricty will flow wherever it deposits, so you do NOT want to get it anywhere you don't want electricity to go. Careful around insulators, like that on loco drive wheel tires, etc or you will regret it. Best to use it with parts off the loco then install them when dry for these sort of applications.
What I got it out tonight for is another handy use, on axle ends that have pick-up bars as the outer bearings on diesels. The problem child tonight was an Atlas Silver H15-44. It's equipped with dual gauge couplers and serves the Durango yard, does a little local freight and sometimes powers MOW trains. Lately, it's been hesitating going across many of the dual-gauge switches in Durango.
As it turns out, the wheelbase of the trucks on the FM (~9.5') almost exactly matches the length of the primary frog to one of the two secondary frogs. With the bearings loosening up, it seems it was a matter of time before that combination started acting up. Usually not a complete stall, although that could happen and the slightest touch would get the loco rolling again, there were hesitations and shudders where it eventually started moving after an interruption.
I pulled the truck side frames off by gently tugging where they attach on the truck. After cleaning and checking I put a small drop of Neolube on the outer axle end/race that occurs twice on each sideframe. Then I finished assembling the trucks and took her for a test drive. The hesitations, ect were almost totally gone, just that easy. This works well to improve the running qualities of any similarly designed B-B diesel.
Good thread. Was pulling my hair out with one Atlas loco having sputtering contact. It just started up as it had been running fine. I cleaned it like a medical instrument twice and even ran it dry the last time. Same thing. Read this and recalled that WD-40 has saved my bacon with things like this for 50 years. Decant some in a plastic chip lid, tooth pick a dab on the end of each axel and it runs perfect.
How soon we forget.
Happy trails, Ron.
New to DCC, and I seem to have the same problem. Although I have soldered every other rail joiner, and soldered all my bus wires and drops, my Western Maryland DCC switcher runs erratically or very slowly. I show 14.7 volts on the track, or 13.6 volts if I switch leads on the tester, and I guess after a thorough track cleaning, I am going to try that ATF fluid. I have to get it all running smoothly before I begin ballasting. Any suggestions??
I don;t know why some people have so much trouble with their track and others don't. Smoking? Can't be pets, I have both cats AND dogs. Partly the environment of the train room, but a couplke of layouts ago, I was in an unfinished basement (floor, walls all bare cement, exposed joists overhead, no drop ceiling) and didn;t hjave issues either, other than some loose dust if trains weren;t run for a few weeks, it just blew off, no need for any form of liquid track cleaner or solvent.
Type of track? I've always used Atlas flex track, code 83. I generally solder joints on curves, and every other joint otherwise. Feeds at every rail joint - EVERY - turnouts get 3 sets of feeders. Check the threads on 'Gleaming" though I never did the whole process with the polish and all, I did burnish most of the railheads with the metal handle of a hobby knife, I never used anything more abrasive than a brite-boy on the rails - no sandpaper, no files. And that just to clean off paint that got on the railhead while painting the web and base. Once you start with the abrasive materials, you're stuck with them, because the scratches they leave in the rail surface just attract more dirt and grime
I would NEVER use anything that doesn;t completely evaoprate off the rails. Anything that leaves a film behind, no matter how thing, is only going to stick dust to the rails, going right back to poor performance and a need to clean. There's no need for any chemical residue on the rails.
Another factor may be the rolling stock. I have nothing with plastic wheels or traction tires. Any car or kit that comes with plastic wheels, I repalce with metal before running, and the only locos I ever bought that came with traction tires, they pull plenty with the plain drivers installed so the set with traction tires are each still in the plastic bag in the box.
A big THANKS for the CRC 2-26, went over to Home Depot and picked it up, cleaned the wipers and axle points and she is running pretty darn good, a 1000% inprovement.
I used the contact cleaner and that seemed to clear things up. Do I need to use the lubricant? I hesitate to have any more "stuff" around the contact points than I need? Thoughts???
Excellent!
If the 2-26 is working for you, then stick with it for now.
I'm not sure which lubricant you're talking about if it's something other than the 2-26. The points do often need some extra help, because the contact area between the end of the point and the adjoining rail is subject to picking up crud and is hard to really keep up properly. So it's one place that often needs extra help. But if you're not having problems, it's OK to leave things as they are in my book, too.
EDIT: OK, I shouldn't be writing at that time of the morning, but I realized just now you're probably talking about the Neolube as "the mysterious lubricant" I couldn't figure out earlier. Yeah, agree completely. Don't deploy it unless you need it. I only utilize it's "atomic power" when I really need something "fixed" and I've not got any better solution.