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Using LEDs to illuminate Utah Pacific marker lights?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, September 21, 2014 5:37 AM

OK, I have installed a few of the latching magnetic reed switchs in some cabooses and they work really well. I have mounted the reed switches so they run parallel to the walkway just behind the stove pipe. I put the center of the reed switchs where the actual contacts are opposite one of the side windows so I can easily see where the magnet needs to be applied. To close the circuit the magnet needs to be drawn along the axis of the reed switch from just before the contacts to just after them. The distance is about 3/8" or so. To open the contacts the magnet just needs to be placed briefly right above the contacts. When mounting the reed switches I believe that it is important to have the contacts positioned so that the flat sides of the reeds are horizontal.

Gee gosh golly! This is fun!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, September 20, 2014 4:57 PM

Hi Randy:

I'm waiting for some wheel wipers from Streamlined Backshop to finish the electronics. I tried the Kadee coupler spring set up but the wheels didn't rotate quite as freely as I had hoped. I also have some magnetic latching reed switches which I have to experiment with so I can turn the lights off when the cabooses are parked. They work well on their own once you figure out where and how to apply the magnet but I haven't set one up inside a shell to see how they work through the plastic.

You guys are going to force me to dig out my spray booth!Smile, Wink & Grin

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, September 20, 2014 10:42 AM

 Post some pictures - I have a couple od cabeese that are a little nicer than some of the others so I was thinking of doing the whole treatment on them, markers and all - and proper interior lights too, with flickering oil lamps instead of a giant bulb in the middle.

                   --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, September 20, 2014 2:28 AM

After a couple more hours of experimentation I have settled on a hybrid solution.

I turned down a 3mm LED which was a much faster process than doing the same thing with a 5mm. I then took one of the castings that I had filled with epoxy and drilled about 1/16" of the epoxy out of the casting so that the turned down 3mm LED could be inserted part way into the casting with the rest of the casting still filled with epoxy. The result is a much better amount of light coming from the jewels.  My first try, which was simply gluing an LED to the end of the casting, didn't produce quite enough light, and the second try with the turned down 5mm LED inserted fully into the casting produced too much light.

Saves me a lot of work trying to use the original idea of 0402 LEDs.Smile

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, September 20, 2014 12:33 AM

Mark:

I can imagine how much time that would take to turn down 100 LEDs!

I am working on a fleet of 13 cabooses. Don't ask me how I will possibly be able to use that many on the layout at one time but at least the caboose tracks will be full!

Eight of them are BB and Riverossi kits picked up cheap on eBay. I have removed all of the molded on grab irons and replaced them with scratch built .015" phosphor bronze wire. That's 20 grabs per caboose including the cupola roof - 160 in total, plus the ones that didn't fit that I had to toss. At first the grabs were a bit hit and miss as far as getting the right fit, but after doing a few I got reasonably good at gauging their various sizes. I admit that I used a few Tichy curved grabs but they only fit properly on a couple of the cabooses so I had to make the rest.

Its going to be a while before final assembly because I am still hampered by a lack of access to my spray booth, so don't hold your breath for pictures. This will be a bit of a new experience because I have only ever used my airbrush to paint rolling stock which was all one colour. I will have to learn to mask the caboose bodies properly to get the CP 1950's brown sides/red ends right. I had no problems the first few time I used my airbrush so I hope that stays the same. In fact I had a lot of fun!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, September 19, 2014 11:42 PM

More than one way to skin a cat !  Smile, Wink & Grin

I used to sell those turned down LEDs at one time - I know the time involved .... try doing a hundred in one sitting !

Post some pictures (if you can) to this thread when you get them working to your satisfaction.

Mark. 

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 19, 2014 11:21 PM

Mark:

I turned down a 5mm warm white LED and it works very well. Initially it was too bright so I will have to play with resistor values to tone it down but that's no big deal. As you suggested, the 5mm LED has enough length for the turned down section to go through the wall of the caboose and still go all the way into the casting.

It does take some time to turn the LED down so in fact filling the casting with epoxy is actually a bit faster, plus the light level is OK with the epoxy without having to experiment with resistor values. I'll have to decide which way to go.

I have figured out that I need to paint the castings black before putting in the jewels. Otherwise the reflection from the brass tends to cause the red to wash out. I fixed the first few with Tamiya Clear Red paint but now I have to paint the black around the already installed jewels which will be a PITA. I also discovered that the castings benefit from a little touch up with a drill bit where the jewels are mounted to allow the jewels to sit down properly in the casting.

Thanks again.

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 19, 2014 8:45 PM

Mark:

Thanks for clarifying how to turn down the LEDs. Now it makes sense to me! I will give it a try. Certainly simpler than trying to fill the casting with epoxy.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, September 19, 2014 7:03 PM

rrinker

 The the other half of Mark's suggestion, after you turn the LED down like shown, you drill a hole in the side of the caboose and stick the thin part of the LED through. The fat part and the wires stay inside the caboose body. The marker gets stuck on the end of the protruding tip. The light fromt he LED will illuminate the interior of the marker and shine through the lenses. Seems like a workable option, I may have to try that myself.

 I will say that picture shows an LED turned down about as absolutely far as you can - that one looks as though the metal from the terminals is actually exposed on the side, though I suspect there's probably just a VERY thing bit of the epoxy covering it - dont bend the leads, it may pop the whole thing apart.

                            --Randy

 

I first chuck the LED in my drill lens first and turn down the collar where the leads are so it's a smooth shaft when turned around to turn down the lens. I've cut through many of them exposing the sides of the legs - doesn't affect their functionality - they're not like a light bulb. But as Randy pointed out, be careful when manipulating the leads as their mounting strength has been compromised.

In a lot of installations, I need to thin the LED on both sides. I've thinned them down to the point I've just exposed the edges of the internal cup and they've still continued to work. As long as the phosphor cup and wire connection isn't damaged (still sealed) they will continue to work.

I've cut the tube part down considerably thinner than this with no problem. Once you get down to the point in my picture, you want to switch to finer needle files for further turning as the vibration from a coarse file WILL snap the end off when it gets too small. I've turned them down close to the size of a fiber optic strand - just go slow and light when you go that fine, and keep your file square to the surface.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by JoeinPA on Friday, September 19, 2014 4:49 PM

I'm wondering if you could use a tower led rather than turning down a cylindrical one.

Joe

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, September 19, 2014 4:20 PM

 The the other half of Mark's suggestion, after you turn the LED down like shown, you drill a hole in the side of the caboose and stick the thin part of the LED through. The fat part and the wires stay inside the caboose body. The marker gets stuck on the end of the protruding tip. The light fromt he LED will illuminate the interior of the marker and shine through the lenses. Seems like a workable option, I may have to try that myself.

 I will say that picture shows an LED turned down about as absolutely far as you can - that one looks as though the metal from the terminals is actually exposed on the side, though I suspect there's probably just a VERY thing bit of the epoxy covering it - dont bend the leads, it may pop the whole thing apart.

                            --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by trwroute on Friday, September 19, 2014 2:46 PM

Tomar makes some LED marker lights.  They work and look great.

Chuck - Modeling in HO scale and anything narrow gauge

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Posted by Mark R. on Friday, September 19, 2014 11:07 AM

hon30critter

Mark:

I had a look at my stock of 3mm and 5mm LEDs and in all cases the components inside the LEDs are too big to fit into the hole in the marker light casting even after the LEDs were filed down.

Oh well, as I said, the epoxy filling seems to be a workable solution.

Thanks again.

Dave

 

Dave - You don't turn down the entire LED, just the material beyond the filament. These are turned down to fit class lights ....

These are 3mm turned down. The 5mm have more material from the filament to the tip, so you get a longer tube.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by gondola1988 on Friday, September 19, 2014 8:06 AM

I use fiber optics, I put two pieces together and use a the smallest LED you can find and paint the part of fiber optic that you don't want to see and heat shrink them on the led. I took the first fiber optics from the wife's xmas tree to try them out been using them every since. Most hobby shops have them they should be by the sheets of plastruct area. Experiment first and see how you like them first, a small hole drilled thru the side wall into the markers should be all you need. Jim.

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 19, 2014 1:01 AM

Mark:

I had a look at my stock of 3mm and 5mm LEDs and in all cases the components inside the LEDs are too big to fit into the hole in the marker light casting even after the LEDs were filed down.

Oh well, as I said, the epoxy filling seems to be a workable solution.

Thanks again.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, September 19, 2014 12:58 AM

OK, I have done the experiment with using epoxy as a means to create a light tube inside the Utah Pacific caboose marker light castings and the results are pretty good. The marker lights are not blindingly bright but I think that actually makes them a bit more realistic. I turned out the lights on my workbench and they showed quite well (still had the ceiling lights on) so I think they will definately work fine in a night scene and they should show up in daylight as well. I'll test that a bit more. Getting the epoxy into the castings was fussy work. I'm using 90 second epoxy so I had to "get 'er done quick!".

I'll keep you posted as things progress.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:20 PM

Mark:

Thanks for the suggestion. If the epoxy doesn't work I'll give your idea a try.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Mark R. on Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:05 PM

Another option - haven't tried it myself for THIS particular application - would be to turn down a 3mm or 5mm LED. I turn down both sizes quite regularly to fit into factory headlight openings.

Chuck the LED in your cordless drill. Leave only enough "meat" sticking out beyond the chuck to just clear the filament inside. Then use a file to turn down the end to the size you need. You can cut them down to a pretty fine tube - small enough to fit in the marker housing. Form the end to a point so light will transmit sideways around the perimeter of the point. 

The 3mm may not have enough material beyond the filament, that's where the 5mm works better if you need a longer light tube. With it long enough, you could easily insert the turned down tube through the wall from inside the caboose and then just stick the marker on the end on the outside.

Paint the tube between the wall and the marker black as well as the bulk of the LED inside the caboose. Should work pretty good !

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:00 PM

Hi Mark:

I got 100 - 0402 white LEDs for $7.00, not wired of course. Unfortunately I couldn't find warm white ones so I will have to see if the super white LEDs throw the colours off in the marker lights. I can always paint them yellow if need be.

By the way, I set up a test circuit using your caboose lighting schematic and it works great. Thank you very much. I got fooled at first because nothing lit up when I applied the power but of course it hadn't dawned on me that the capacitor would take a few seconds to charge.Dunce

I am also going to try another method of lighting the markers. I'm going to fill a marker with epoxy and then attach the LED to the outside end of the mounting tube. I hope the epoxy will act like a light pipe. If it doesn't work I can drill the epoxy out, and if it does work I will be able to use 3mm LEDs because they will be mounted inside the caboose body. They will have to be blacked out of course. I am going to light the interior but I only want a dim light coming from one window furthest away from the cupola where the conductor's desk would be.

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:09 PM

Nice "led baron"   LaughLaughLaugh

          --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Mark R. on Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:05 PM

There's a number of places that sell the 0402 size prewired - they are a real pain to solder wires to. Personally, I get mine from an ebay seller in Germany called "ledbaron". Warm white wired 0402 for under $1.00 each in quantity.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:14 AM

Hi Mark!

OH joy! 0402 LEDs!! Just what I wanted to hear!SighSmile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh

OK! I'm going for it! Thought I had some on hand but I can't find them so eBay here I come!

Thanks again Mark for sharing your expertize.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Mark R. on Tuesday, September 16, 2014 12:48 AM

Dave, You're going to have to go to the 0402 size if you want to get them IN the casting itself. 0402 on left, 0603 on right ....

While these little LEDs are brightest straight out the face, there is a certain degree of light that eminates from the sides as well. This actually works to our advantage as we don't want them super bright anyway. 

The best way to install them is to attach them to a couple AA batteries in series so you can see what they look like when you inset them as they may need to be twisted or turned to get the light right. Once I know the correct angle, I hold the wires and dip the LED in a puddle of CA and stick it back in the hole while it's still lit.

You'll know right away if it still looks right. If not, pull it out before the CA sets and try again.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Using LEDs to illuminate Utah Pacific marker lights?
Posted by hon30critter on Monday, September 15, 2014 9:05 PM

I am working on installing Utah Pacific brass marker lights #CM-63 in several cabooses. I would like to use LEDs to illuminate the marker lamps but I'm not sure how to mount the LEDs so that all three jewels are lit evenly. 0603 LEDs will not slide into the marker light bodies like the 1.5 V incandescent bulbs that the housings were designed for. I thought about filling the marker light bodies with clear epoxy to form a sort of light bar and then mounting the LEDs on the end of the mounting tube for the markers, but before I started messing around I thought I would ask how others have done it.

Any suggestions?

FWIW I am using Mark R's caboose constant lighting circuit (which I have no problem with - this is not an electrical question). Mark R. if you are out there perhaps you could chime in. I'll send a PM to Mark.

Thanks

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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