I think its time to have you experts give me some help. Just completed my mainline, using scotchlok connectors to the 14 gauge bus, and 18 gauge feeders to the 22 gauge terminals on the track. Terminal feeders are soldered to the 18 gauge, and the 18 gauge is on the bus using scotchlok connectors. Combination of solder and scotchloks. Tested the track using a quarter, and it tripped breaker every time. Here is the problem. I have the Empire Builder and its not DCC. Set my Digitrax Zephyr at 00 but the train is extremely slow even at full throttle. Tomorrow I am going to check and reclamp all the IDC connectors. Any ideas?? Thanks
If the loco is not decoder equiped it may run slower when running it on a DCC system. Get and install a decoder.
caboose62 ... I have the Empire Builder and its not DCC. ...
... I have the Empire Builder and its not DCC. ...
Que?
selector caboose62 ... I have the Empire Builder and its not DCC. ... Que?
caboose62 ... I have the Empire Builder and its not DCC. ... Que?
Sounds like it. The train Empire Builder which does not have a decoder, running on a Zephyr DCC system. So yes, it will run much slower than usual. You need to put a decoder in it. And also do NOT leave it sitting still, not moving, with the track power on. This will heat up and eventually ruin the motor.
Get a decoder. It will be 100% better. And run at the speed it used to.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ok thanks guys. When I say slow, I mean its crawling. What kind of a meter aside from the Rampmaster can I use to check the voltage and amperage on the track? Will almost any normal multimeter work? What settings to check voltage? Even with this engine being non dcc, it should not be running as slow as it is. I think there is a real problem with the voltage or amperage on the track. Will be working on tracing it today or tomorrow, and since I am retired, I have plenty of time. LOL
Any VOM can read track voltage. Set it for AC Volts and you should get a reading of around 14.5 Volts on the rail with nothing running.
Even the $4.95 (and sometimes cheaper) VOM from Harbor Freight is good enough for model railroad use.
maxman selector caboose62 ... I have the Empire Builder and its not DCC. ... Que? I think that he has a non-DCC train (the Empire Builder) running on Zepher address zero.
Ah, now I see...thanks, Maxman.
cacoleAny VOM can read track voltage. Set it for AC Volts and you should get a reading of around 14.5 Volts on the rail with nothing running. Even the $4.95 (and sometimes cheaper) VOM from Harbor Freight is good enough for model railroad use.
True, it will give you a peak reading. But don't be surprisied to see a VOM bounce around, either, as it will give a variety of readings of the digital pulse that provides the signal to the trains.
No experience with Digitrax command stations, but most have a way to adjust the output voltage. You can use the same procedure to check if the voltage is correct or not, just likely you don't need to follow the adjusting procedure unless it's somehow been accidentally adjusted by you so it's too low.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
When I used a Zephyr, DC engines running on 00 didn't go slower than usual. Are you running several engines together?? Maybe the power draw is very high??
Often sound equipped engines run very slowly on DC power...but if they have sound they have a decoder so you would be running them on regular DCC. (For a while, BLI offered sound equipped engines without regular (motion and light) decoders, but otherwise all other sound-equipped engines use a DCC-decoder.)
If it's passing the quarter test, is not the wiring ok? I'd caution against fiddling with the IDCs at this point. If you do, I think it's adviseable to reconnect them at a new spot (near the old) on the wires.
Suggest consider get an inexpensive DC powerpack and hook it up to see the train run on plain old variable DC. Such a powerpack will come in handy later; e.g., if you buy a DC loco for conversion to DCC you will first want to see how it runs on DC on a test track (a piece of flextrack will do).
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR1.TRC0.A0.H1.Xmrc+1300&_nkw=mrc+railpower+1300&_sacat=220
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
The cheap Harbor Freight meters (you can get them FREE if you watch the coupons they send out) work great for model railroad applications. There's no bouncing around, the DCC signal is too high frequency for that. The Digitrax recommended method of checking track voltage is to test between one rail and the ground terminal, and then the other rail and the ground terminal. If address 00 is stopped, not set to soem speed other than stop, the voltages should be identical, or within a few tenths of a volt. If they vary greatly, and you are sure address 00 isn't being used (select address 00 and set the speed control to stop, and the direction lever to brake), there is a problem with the unit.
Zephyrs don;t have a track voltage adjustment. The output can be somewhat modifie by using a different voltage transformer, but this should not be needed. The supplied power supply and default settings are plenty of volts to teh track to run locos as fast speeds. If this is a loco that does not have a decoder - it very well could run very slowly. I've tried all sorts of locos without decoders, some definitely work better than others - some are almost identical to the wa y they run on DC, others ran very slowly.
rrinkerThe cheap Harbor Freight meters (you can get them FREE if you watch the coupons they send out) work great for model railroad applications. There's no bouncing around, the DCC signal is too high frequency for that.
I've got a HF cheapy I keep in the truck. Didn't know that they had (lacked?) this property. The little HF would sure be handier around the layout now that it's scenicked than my bigger pro meter -- and would give me a steady reading without using the Data Hold button. Cool.
Not sure if this is the case or not, but some new engines (Atlas for sure) have a low value resistor across the truck input wires in parallel to them on the 8-pin dummy plug.
The resistor has no effect when using a DC throttle, but will cause a "soft short" when placed on DCC rails. This is done on purpose to prevent users from running the engine on address 00 on a DCC system. Remove the dummy plug and install a decoder and problem goes away.
It's possible the soft short isn't enough to shut down your system, but it's putting a drain on it.
Check the dummy 8-pin plug to see if there is a tiny resistor on one edge of it. If there is, replace it with another dummy plug that doesn't have one and see if that changes things.
That being said, there's a reason the manufacturers are doing that .... they don't recommend running your engines using address 00 on your DCC system either.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
All I use are the HF meters. I see about 13.6 AC with my NCE Power Cab.
When running a DC loco with your system using the zero bit option, you will see DC voltage as well as AC voltage.
The meter will see the stretched bit as a DC voltage, just like the motor.
The DCC component is what is making the motor buzz.
What do you see for DC voltage?
The loco will not run on AC only.
Below is a link about using the zero bit option.
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/DCC-waveforms/DCC_waveforms.html
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
peaherns, thanks for the tip and thanks everyone else. Hooked up a normal DC throttle that came with it, and it ran at normal speeds but there was hesitation on some sections of the track. Will get a VOM and double check my wiring because using DCC it barely crawled. Let you all know when I have it running fine. I might have to do away with the scotchloks and go ahead and solder everything. hehehe
caboose62 peaherns, thanks for the tip and thanks everyone else. Hooked up a normal DC throttle that came with it, and it ran at normal speeds but there was hesitation on some sections of the track. Will get a VOM and double check my wiring because using DCC it barely crawled. Let you all know when I have it running fine. I might have to do away with the scotchloks and go ahead and solder everything. hehehe
ScotchLoks are ok if properly installed. Correct wire for feeders at the ScotchLoks is many times the issue.
Our club uses them.
Check the voltage in sections where the loco runs slowly. With no loco on the track, the voltage should be the same as at the controller output. You need a load on the rails like a loco or even a 168 auto light bulb for a load.
Track joiners are a poor way of connecting track electrically. A feeder for each section is best.
Mark R.Not sure if this is the case or not, but some new engines (Atlas for sure) have a low value resistor across the truck input wires in parallel to them on the 8-pin dummy plug...
I think you must mean a capacitor, not a resistor. The right value of capacitor will appear as a short on AC but not on DC.
CSX Robert Mark R. Not sure if this is the case or not, but some new engines (Atlas for sure) have a low value resistor across the truck input wires in parallel to them on the 8-pin dummy plug... I think you must mean a capacitor, not a resistor. The right value of capacitor will appear as a short on AC but not on DC.
Mark R. Not sure if this is the case or not, but some new engines (Atlas for sure) have a low value resistor across the truck input wires in parallel to them on the 8-pin dummy plug...
It is a resistor. I Googled it.
If it's a resistor and it's a high enough value to not be a short on DC, it won't be a short on DCC either. It's like putting a 4.7k resistor across the wheels to use current based block detection. Assuming 15V DCC to the track, it's like 3ma per.
But why in the world would they EVER want to put a resistor across the rails on ANY loco? It serves no purpose.
Capacitor, resistor. Well something seems to be happening with the Atlas locos shutting down the DCC system. Pulling the DC adapter out of the socket and putting a different brand of adapter solved the issue for a couple users.
My Bachmann 44 tonner (non-DCC version) did the same thing. It was most likely the caps on the motor - there is no dummy board in those, just some clips over the decoder connections to short the track pickups to the motor and headlight wires. Testing on address 00 - run-short-run-short. Installed the decoder, clipped the caps off the motor leads, runs perfectly now.
richg1998Capacitor, resistor. Well something seems to be happening with the Atlas locos shutting down the DCC system.
Well, like I said, a capacitor WILL appear as a short on AC (and DCC is AC), but not on DC. A resistor of a low enough value will appear as a short on either.
Ok - What is the component on this plug ? It is wired between pins 1 and 5 on the board. Whatever this component is will short out a DCC system as soon as the engine is placed on the rails, yet it runs just fine on DC. There are no markings on the component - I have lots of them and none are marked in any way ....
Looks like a cap to me. I don't know if there are any rules concerning the coloring of surface mount components, but from what I've seen most resistors are black and the brownish colored components like that are capacitors.
Appears as though only Polarized or Electrolytic SMD capasitors carry markings but not non-polar capacitors. The only way to know the value of these is to pay close attention to the package they came in or read them with a capacitor meter. (?)
1 and 5 are the motor connections, that's almost certainly a capacitor. Probably around .01uF. Very common for non-polarized capacitors to have no markings, in fact one site mentions that there are 3 options for marking SMD capc: EIA standard, a custom marking, or none at all. And laments "None is chosen all too often". So the only way to get a reading would indeed be a meter, out of circuit.
Best solution: just cut it off since it serves absolutely no useful purpose. I've never had issues with my trains interfering with radio and tv in the same house, next room over. No way will it mess up your neighbor's TV or radio. At least by putting it on the dummy plug, it gets removed when switching to DCC. That capacitor causes problems with high freuqnecy drive DCC decoders as well as BEMF equipped decoders. And has the same bad effect on DC control systems that use PWM like a decoder does.