I'm planning on buying a Digitrax DCC system. It's going to be the Super Chief xtra 5 Amp. It will have a capacity of 120 locomotives, but I would need two throttles.
Can I run DC locomotives with the DCC system with it, when I buy DCC locomotives for it?
My future locomotives will have DCC/Sound equipped, will this work?
Can it work with different decorders another than Digitrax?
Amtrak America, 1971-Present.
The throttle you get with the system has the ability to control two trains at the same time.
You can run DC locos on this system by selecting the address of 0, but it is recmmnended that you not run them too long and not leave them on the track powered with DCC as the motors will get very warm. Mu'ing DC locos with DCC locos does not work very well as the DC locos can't be speed matched to the DCC equiped locos.
Running DCC and Sound equipped locos is what it is designed for and decoders by other manufacturers will run ok, but some of the decoders do not support all the programming functions.
Digitrax has 2 throttle styles: the DT402x and UT4x. The DT comes with the sets and are 3 variables: tetherd, simplex or duplex wireless. Same with the UT4. The DT402 is 2 throttles in one and can be used to program and operate locos and decoders and programm/ operate stationary decoders. The UT can only run the loco's and operate functions F0 through F12. The DT402x can do F0 fo F28. If you go wireless, you need a wireless throttle and correct UR panel. Joe
Can this system speed match diesels in a multiple-unit consist?
angelob6660 Can this system speed match diesels in a multiple-unit consist?
Yes.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Is there any problems about the DCC system that I should know about?
angelob6660Can this system speed match diesels in a multiple-unit consist?
Just to be clear, locos are not speed matched "in multiple unit consists". They are speed matched to each other individually and then consisted.
Speed matching is a decoder function. The decoder has to have the capability to adjust motor voltage, either through the use of several CVs (configuration variables 2, 5, and 6...min, max, and mid speed), or through the use of speed curves (either built in or modeler adjustable...a series of different CVs). Some decoders lack CVs 5 and 6 and can only be adjusted by the other CV speed curve method. And some decoders may have CV 2 but be lacking the other speed curve CVs. The command station you purchase only needs to be able to enter values into the decoder CVs. The Digitrax system you mention does have this capability.
angelob6660 Is there any problems about the DCC system that I should know about?
The buttons on the throttle are small. Sometimes they tend to stick, but you will get used to it. Don't think that you can take the system out of the box and use it without reading the instructions. READ the instructions when you have trouble with something. That way you will learn it better than coming here and asking questions that the manual has answers for.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
No problem, I'll read the manual when the time comes.
angelob6660 I'm planning on buying a Digitrax DCC system. It's going to be the Super Chief xtra 5 Amp. It will have a capacity of 120 locomotives, but I would need two throttles. Can I run DC locomotives with the DCC system with it, when I buy DCC locomotives for it? My future locomotives will have DCC/Sound equipped, will this work?
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
When I first converted to DCC I ran several DC engines for months before I converted them. I never hurt any of them. The Super Empire Builder and the 5 amp Super Chief are both 5 amps, so I don't understand your criticism. The Super Chief and the Zephyr have a programming track output that the SEB does not. They can do decoder readback which the SEB cannot. The Super Chief can run more simultanious engines.
I thought the 5 amps were normal for a midsize layout for N Scale that will run at least 4 locomotives.
Is there another DCC system that is cheaper and can hold up to 120 locomotives and other things that I had listed?
I believe you are confusing terms. The 120 limit is not how many it can hold, it is how many it can run at a time. 5 amps is a common power for DCC systems, but there are several with lower power. Since you asked about Digitrax, you might want to consider the 3 amp Zephyr. Without a diagram or at least a description of your layout, no one can really give you advise. Power required is determined by how many locomotives and powered cars it is running at a time, not by layout size.
5 amps will run a LOT more than 4 N scale locos. I've run 8 HO locos, 4 with sound, 4 without, on my Zephyr with 2.5 amps.
There is NO DCC system that without extra boosters can run 120 N or HO locos. Also, the Super Chief limit of 120 is SIMULTANEOUSLY RUNNING locos. You don;t 'store' all your locos in the command station, Just the ones you are running. You can own hundreds, even thousands, of locos. Each gets a unique address, and the Super Chief can control up to 120 different addresses at the same time. The ones sitting on the shelf, or parked in an engine facility not being used, do not count towards the 120. Unless you are building in a barn, 120 is MORE than enough for a home layout.
--Randy
Edit: When i ran 8 locos on my Zephyr, it wasn't being overloaded - I ran out of room to manage the locos without them crashing in to one another. I only had direct control over 3 of them, two on my DT400 throttle and one on the Zephyr throttle. The other 5 were just freely running around the layout.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The layout measurements are 3x10 feet by 3x7 feet in a L shape with a single and double main track. I hope that helps.?
Size does not matter, really. It's how many locos you intend on running at the same time. Typically with a layout that size, the Zephyr Xtra will be MORE than enough power.
rrinker The ones sitting on the shelf, or parked in an engine facility not being used, do not count towards the 120. Unless you are building in a barn, 120 is MORE than enough for a home layout. --Randy
The ones sitting on the shelf, or parked in an engine facility not being used, do not count towards the 120. Unless you are building in a barn, 120 is MORE than enough for a home layout.
This will however count towards your current draw (especially sound units). This will be most impactful at start up. This is because everything is trying to get power at once. You will have current usage spike when the system is first powered up.
We had a problem with this at the club layout because the sound locos would trip the breaker just sitting in the engine facility (we ended up switching from the Digitrax PM-42's to PSX) and no it was not a current setting issue or board issue.
Most of the time this can be solved by having a simple toggle switch that kills power to your engine facility.
As far as the layout you mentioned it may be worth looking into a Zephyr system and adding either a DT or UT throttle.
The number of slots (120 for the super chief) is used for simultaneious operation. I have a decent sized layout (12*19 ft, three level) and have never gone over 30 slots.
Also the nice thing about Digitrax is that it scalable. If you end up wanting to build a larger layout you can always add a booster(s) (DB-150). you can expand as needed.
I have a Super Chief plus a DB-100+ booster (not even made any more) that has been powering my layouts (yes multiple interations now) since 1996.
I have to agree with Randy that a Zephyr would probably be a better choise for your layout and if you do upgrade in the future. The Zephyr can still be used as a stationary throttle (good for progamming stuff)
Also JMRI is your friend! Being able to read CV's and communicating with the DCC system is a must in my opinion.
RR cirkits makes the Locobuffer USB which is Loconet compatible ( and in my opinion far superior to the PR3) and it opto isolated (makes sure you don't fry your computer accidently).
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/
First off on the beginning question at least 6 locomotives at the same time.
Second I have 72 diesels (mostly Amtrak) and 1 steam locomotive (Kato Daylight), 1 electric (Kato GG1). More on the way when I buy the rest.
That's why I was planning on 120 addresses to hold all future locomotives when I install almost all with DCC Sound.
*All the locomotives are Kato based.
I don't know what I'm doing?
I just wanted a DCC system with sound to heard the old Amtrak F40PH's locomotive coupled behind 8 superliner phase III with a baggage car going thru the scenery.
A system that can hold every... Even writing this makes my head hurt. A figured my roster would be around 150 trains when I'm finish collecting them all.
I am very confused and lost when talking about upgrading. I probably would run at least 6 trains at once. (1 Amtrak, 2-3 main line freights, 1 or 2 local runs). The consists changes a lot.
Different locomotives will be hooked up a real railroad. (So no two engines will be connected, unless avaliable.)
DC locomotives that will be the same SP Daylight, CBQ California Zephyr, PRR GG1, Amtrak's 40th Anniversary, probably UP Heritage Fleet (don't know for sure).
angelob6660That's why I was planning on 120 addresses to hold all future locomotives when I install almost all with DCC Sound.
There is a difference between the loco address and the command station slot. The address is the number you assign to the loco. Typically it is the number on the side of the cab. Each slot in the command station can contain one address. So if you have up to 120 locos you can have each slot filled with one loco number.
But that does not mean you can only have 120 locos. You are not going to have that many on the layout at one time anyway. If you want to operate that 121st loco, you have to make room in the command station by emptying one of the filled command station slots to make room for it.
Since I'm not a Digitrax user, I've probably not explained this correctly. I'm certain that a correct explanation will follow shortly.
Welcome to DCC. We have 2 Digitrax systems, one being 8Amp and have found them to be good.
When it comes to speed matching or working with DCC equipped locos, particularly those with sound we have found using JMRI to be very helpful. You just download the JMRI software onto your laptop and plug your laptop into the DCC system using an interface. I use the locobuffer USB.
http://www.rr-cirkits.com
Richard
It's not too difficult. You need to remove the idea of "storing all your locos" from your mind. DCC does not work that way. Each loco decoder gets an address. Typically the cab number is used as then generally are unique (at least across one railroad - if you just run anything and everything, you may have a UP loco that has the same number as a NS loco, in which case you will need to come up with another way to identify the two, or just never run those two at the same time. On the throttle, you put in the address of the loco you want to run, and that one responds as you turn the knob, press the function buttons, etc. If you park that one and go to run another, you put in the address of the new loco, and now that one will move and the other one will stay put, even on the same track.
Modern can motors with modern magnets and running gear (DCC installed), in HO, rarely run 1/2 amp each. N gauge will probably be less.
I have used The Zephyr Extra for 4 years now and have never run more than three HOn3 loco's at once. Tons of left over juice I'm not using. As already noted, it is not the size of the layout it is the number of engines actually running at one time. Zephyr's 3 amps is a lot of power for N scale if you are using modern motive power and not running six 80 car trains at once with three loco's per train.
Test your engines in DC stall mode with an ammeter applied and go figure what you will need from there.
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
So what is the DC stall mood in a train set power pack? Is it when the locomotive is on but the power is around 40 to move.
I have beeb a satisfied Digitrax owner and user since 1998. I started with a Digitrax Radio (simplex) Chief which came with a DCS100 command station and a DT100R wireless throttle. They are still in use on my layout. The nice thing about Digitrax is you can add on to the system.
I would highly sugggest you purchase a Digitrax PR3 which will interface your Digitrax DCC system with your layout. You can download JMRI (free) software to program your locomotives via your computer. JMRI/PR3will run as a stand alone programer so you can program your locomotives without havingva DCC system. The JMRI software will store all of your locomotive data on your computer. With JMRI/PR3 you can also download an APP to use your smart phone as a throttle too.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
narrow gauge nuclear...Test your engines in DC stall mode with an ammeter applied and go figure what you will need from there...
angelob6660 So what is the DC stall mood in a train set power pack? Is it when the locomotive is on but the power is around 40 to move.
The stall current of your locomotives is how much current they draw when applying 12 volts and the motor is prevented from turning.
The purpose of finding the stall current is to know how much current the decoder needs to be able to supply, not for finding out how much your DCC system needs to supply. Your locos will draw much less than their stall currents under normal operating conditions.
Most modern N-scale locos draw so little current that virtually any decoder can supply enough to not worry about it. I have never bothered testing the stall current on any of my locos and have never overloaded a decoder.
Lake...The only thing my SEB does not do is read back CV's. No big deal though as you can use the JMRI computer program to do the CV setting and reading...
To be clear, using JMRI does not give you the ability to read the decoder settings when used with an SEB (Super Empire Builder).
To give an example of what you can do with a Zephyr, the most I have had running at the same time so far is 7 trains with a total of 9 engines. This included an Athearn Challenger with sound and a dual motored Bachmann DD40AX. The engines were not running light either, they had trains of varying lengths. The shortest was 3 cars - an Athearn Bombardier commuter train - and the longest was 25 Micro-Trains boxcars. I also had some lighted cars: 3 Kato Superliners(with the original incandescent lighting kits, not the newer LED kits) and an Aerotrain with one 3-car add-on set. This was all with the original Zephyr, which has 1/2 amp less power than the Zephyr Xtra.
So the best DCC system to get while running 6 trains is the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra.
Will it run DC locomotives before I get DCC?