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Double Crossover and DCC

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  • Member since
    July 2014
  • 1 posts
Double Crossover and DCC
Posted by lexky on Friday, July 18, 2014 9:06 PM

I'm back into Model Railroading after 30 years of raising 5 children and watching them leave the nest.  Semi-retired and starting all over with HO as my scale.  Have not built framework yet.  Question...

I came across a guy selling a couple of Walthers code 83 double cross-overs and I would like to buy one of them.  The question is I've heard about cross-overs being DCC friendly and my plan is to go DCC.  Will I be throwing my money away by buying one of these?

 

Doublecrossoversm.jpg

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 9,592 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, July 21, 2014 9:07 AM

If you don't want them, send them to me, they would be great on my DC layout.

If it will work on your layout depends on how it is wired. If the current is headded in the same direction on both sides, there is no problem. If there is a loop at one end so that current is on the oppsoite rails, is big problem.

 

Route of LION has several such srossovers, and on route of him, the entire crossover is elsectrically dead, but this is no matter to trains of LION with 48 wheel pickup.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Sebring FL
  • 842 posts
Posted by floridaflyer on Monday, July 21, 2014 9:52 AM

Short answer is no you will not be wasting your $$$$

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Westchester NY
  • 1,747 posts
Posted by retsignalmtr on Monday, July 21, 2014 11:19 AM

My club has a couple of the Shinohara code 100 doubles that we have nothing but trouble with frog shorting. They are the ones with the short points. We purchased some of the newer code 100 doubles and have a couple on a test board. They have one piece point/lead rails and a wider point opening. We also have on test a couple of code 83 doubles which are supposed to be DCC friendly. The jury is still out on them. We are planning to use tortoise machines to power the frogs.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, July 21, 2014 1:03 PM

 We had some shorting issues with them at the old club I used to belong to - but it really wasn't a problem with the turnouts. These were the pre-DCC friendly ones, heck it was almost pre-DCC in those days. The problem was with the Tortoise contacts switching sides prior to the points moving away from the stock rail. Since the non-DCC friendly versions set both point and closure rails, as well as frog, to the polarity of whichever stock rail the points are against, if you switch frog polarity and the points haven't moved, it's a short. Better adjustment of the Tortoise, os used of a modern electrinic switcher like a Frog Juicer, or gluing some microswitches to the Tortoise so they only activate at full throw would prevent this.

 Some fo the modern servo drivers are configured to operate a frog polarity relay but only AFTER the movement completes - circuit opens, points begin to move, points stop, polarity reverses, circuit is closed again. More complex circuit for that because you need 2 relays, but it's short proof and avoids the fualt of a short which is then corrected - This is the main reason I don;t like the automatic devices, because you have to cause a fault first, which the device then fixes. Why not avoid creating a fault completely? Granted, the trackage that Tim Warris built for his CNJ Bronz Terminal layout, which inspired the creation of the Frog Juicer from Tam Valley - well, I wouldn;t want to try to figure out all the combinations and correct polarity to use switch machine contacts either.

                --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,774 posts
Posted by cmrproducts on Monday, July 21, 2014 1:56 PM

Most everyone of the DBL Crossovers I have seen on the many Layouts our OPs Group run on

They either move all 4 of the points at one time

OR!

They move 2 of the points for the crossing in the direction you want to go at one time!

That seemed to eliminate the shorting problem

OR at least we never saw a problem when running through them!

Just something to consider!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Monday, July 21, 2014 3:16 PM

cmrproducts

Most everyone of the DBL Crossovers I have seen on the many Layouts our OPs Group run on

They either move all 4 of the points at one time

OR!

They move 2 of the points for the crossing in the direction you want to go at one time!

That seemed to eliminate the shorting problem

OR at least we never saw a problem when running through them!

Just something to consider!

BOB H - Clarion, PA

 

Bob,

I have two on my DC layout...thrown by Atlas undertable switch machines and relay to power the frogs and control panel indicator lights, one tap on a normally open push button on control panel and two are thrown along with lights. Just use a power supply 18v at 4amps, that I built myself. Been working 20yrs now. I don't care for a Tortoise or a CD set-up...but that's my opinion.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

BTW: Lexky, I forgot, Welcome To The Forums.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Westchester NY
  • 1,747 posts
Posted by retsignalmtr on Monday, July 21, 2014 5:36 PM

We have been experimenting with throwing all four switches and it usually works along with a liberal ( I hate liberals) application of nail polish in the areas where the shorting occurs.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, July 21, 2014 6:10 PM

I have Walthers Code 83 double crossovers on my layout.  No shorts, no derailments, DCC friendly.

I use four Tortoises, all wired together, to throw all four turnout segments simultaneously.

The key to reliable performance is to add a set of feeder wires on all four ends of the double crossover.

Incidentally, my double crossovers are about 10 years old.  This is the first that I can remember hearing about a shorting problem with the Walthers Code 83 double crossover.

Rich

Alton Junction

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