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Bachmann DCC only 2-8-0 problem

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Bachmann DCC only 2-8-0 problem
Posted by grinnell on Thursday, May 22, 2014 10:33 PM

My previous bachmann spectrum 2-8-0s had DCC with sound decoders and they ran well and sounded fine. I recently purchased a new DCC only 2-8-0 and it 'buzzed' and didn't move below speed step 8-10 of 28. I tried the loco with a sound equipped tender and it ran fine, so the problem is with the DCC only decoder in the tender not the locomotive itself.

I searched on the internet and found the (two function) EZ Command decoder instructions and there is not much you can change.  I changed CV2 from 10 to 20 (and higher) and got the loco to 'creep' at speed step 1 without the "buzz", however it doesn't do much more than creep untill you get to speed step ~10.  Is there anything else I can do (short of substituting a better quality decoder)?

Grinnell

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:05 PM

Those decoders are low end Lenz decoders. They are lousy.I have seen the same in different train forums.

Replace with a TCS decoder.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Bachmann/Spectrum%20Baldwin%202-8-0/Bachmman_Spectrum_baldwin_2-8-0.html

Your tender PC board might not be the same.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by farrellaa on Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:13 PM

I would try to cut the capacitors on the tender pc board first (and then replace the decoder?) as they affect slow speed operation and may cause the 'buzz' sound. I have 3 of these and all have non-factory decoders.

   -Bob

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:18 PM

In case you are not aware of it, the Bachmann sound on board are made by SoundTraxx. They have Tsunami technology but are not quite the same as a full Tsunami that you buy and install yourself.

 Few less sounds and CV's. Don't remember the details.

 Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by grinnell on Friday, May 23, 2014 12:46 AM

I know it is a rudamentary decoder, are there any other CVs I can change to improve things?

I'm reluctant to open it up and take out a capaciter. Are we cutting a wire, unsoldering a component or what? Is there a 'for dummies' explanation of how to do all that? (eg. opening up the tender, recognizing the correct component, removing said component, getting it all put back together and testing the result).

This is a 'foreign road' engine that only shows up on an interchange track once per operating session, so I don't want to put more money into it and I'll live with these issues if I have to. The "buzz" is fixed and the very sluggish response below speed step 10 is much less noticable when I use a throttle with a rotary speed control that doesn't display the speed step.

Grinnell

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Posted by cacole on Friday, May 23, 2014 8:39 AM

Replace the decoder with a TCS T-1 or, better yet, an ESU LokPilot.  The buzzing noise is caused by the cheap Lenz decoder used by Bachmann, and decoder replacement is the easiest cure.  

On the newer models, surface mount components are used on the circuit board, so it is not as easy to "clip off" the capacitors as it used to be.

 

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, May 23, 2014 9:17 AM

Even before DCC, this is model railroading. Open the tender up. Carefully unplug the tender and loco. Don't be ham handed here.

Easy to open the tender. Look for a screw or two at the front of the tender under the truck when the tender is upside down.

Cutting surface mount caps is very easy. Use a miniature pair of wire flush cutters. I like them better than wire diagonal cutters. Get a pair of each and you will see the difference in the style of wire cutter.

 Don't worry about the two inductors. With no caps, they are a moot point. Some inductors are wire wound. Some look like a green resistor.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by flyn96 on Friday, May 23, 2014 9:51 AM

You probably missed another thread over on the general area. I was having issues with an older 2-8-0 and one of the other members posted links about he capacitor issue. Its an easy beginner type procecdure. I cut and pasted the links for you.

Hope it helps

 

Here is some web links about the capacitor issue:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/2-8-0/index.html

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Bachmann/Spectrum%20Baldwin%202-8-0/Bachmman_Spectrum_baldwin_2-8-0.html

http://home.roadrunner.com/~mrwithdcc/con280.html

 

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, May 23, 2014 10:04 AM

No idea on how the decoder was originally programmed by the previous user but do a decoder reset. CV8, enter 8.

 If you really don't want to open the tender, go to the Bachmann forum and ask in the HO scale forum. There are users there and a couple Bachmann reps. Some are really paranoid about opening locos.

 There are some who use the on board decoder and do ok but have to fine tune them and will have pointers that “Might” help.

You will not get the decoder to run as well as the decoder in the sound loco.

 You will be advised by some to replace the decoder.

 I had a Bachmann loco with on board decoder and replaced the decoder.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php

 Rich

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Posted by grinnell on Friday, May 23, 2014 10:27 AM

Thank you flyn96 for the links, a very good "how to", just what I need.

Grinnell

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, May 23, 2014 1:45 PM

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by grinnell on Friday, May 23, 2014 6:25 PM

Getting into the tender was easy.  However my circuit board (HB43X#PCB01 Rev B) doesn't look like the ones pictured on the links given above or the picture on the Bachmann site's FAQ.  My circuit board has three little tiny capaciters (I think), labeled c1 c2 and c3 that are soldered directly to the circuit board at both ends with no "open" length of wire that could be easily cut. There are also two long inductor coils that are soldered to the board. The decoder plugs into an eight pin plug.

It would seem to be easy to replace the decoder, but Bachmann included a yellow paper "Important Notice" that says 'the capaciters and inductors on this locomotive should be removed from the circuit board before non-NMRA decoders are installed'. So I would still have to figure out the correct components and how to unsolder them from the circuit board.

I think I'll go back to Plan B and just use my NCE Cab06 with the rotary throttle, where the sluggish response at low speed steps is not as evident (compared to the discrete increments of the NCE Pro cab controller).

Grinnell

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Posted by JoeinPA on Friday, May 23, 2014 6:31 PM

Grinell:

The inductors can be left in the circuit. You can unsolder one end of the capacitors and bend them up slightly to disconnect. Don't go back to the old decoder for lack of trying.

Joe

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Posted by CSX Robert on Friday, May 23, 2014 7:44 PM

grinnell

Getting into the tender was easy.  However my circuit board (HB43X#PCB01 Rev B) doesn't look like the ones pictured on the links given above or the picture on the Bachmann site's FAQ.  My circuit board has three little tiny capaciters (I think), labeled c1 c2 and c3 that are soldered directly to the circuit board at both ends with no "open" length of wire that could be easily cut. There are also two long inductor coils that are soldered to the board. The decoder plugs into an eight pin plug.

It would seem to be easy to replace the decoder, but Bachmann included a yellow paper "Important Notice" that says 'the capaciters and inductors on this locomotive should be removed from the circuit board before non-NMRA decoders are installed'. So I would still have to figure out the correct components and how to unsolder them from the circuit board.

I think I'll go back to Plan B and just use my NCE Cab06 with the rotary throttle, where the sluggish response at low speed steps is not as evident (compared to the discrete increments of the NCE Pro cab controller).

Grinnell

 

 

The slugishnes can be helped by programming CV2(Start voltage).  The buzzing can be helped by replacing the decoder.  Removing the caps will not make much difference unless you use a decoder with bemf compensation, and even then the engine will probably run decent with the caps, just better without.

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Posted by richg1998 on Friday, May 23, 2014 9:48 PM

grinnell

Getting into the tender was easy.  However my circuit board (HB43X#PCB01 Rev B) doesn't look like the ones pictured on the links given above or the picture on the Bachmann site's FAQ.  My circuit board has three little tiny capaciters (I think), labeled c1 c2 and c3 that are soldered directly to the circuit board at both ends with no "open" length of wire that could be easily cut. There are also two long inductor coils that are soldered to the board. The decoder plugs into an eight pin plug.

It would seem to be easy to replace the decoder, but Bachmann included a yellow paper "Important Notice" that says 'the capaciters and inductors on this locomotive should be removed from the circuit board before non-NMRA decoders are installed'. So I would still have to figure out the correct components and how to unsolder them from the circuit board.

I think I'll go back to Plan B and just use my NCE Cab06 with the rotary throttle, where the sluggish response at low speed steps is not as evident (compared to the discrete increments of the NCE Pro cab controller).

Grinnell

 

Like I told you, clip them with wire cutters. I and others have done it. I position the point of each jaw on the wire cutter at the base of each cap.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, May 26, 2014 9:31 PM

 Removing the caps will help, but it will still 'buzz' - that low end Lenz decoder they use doesn;t even have and sort of 'high frequency' drive so the motor will buizz, especially at slower speeds, no matter how you adjust CVs. The only true cure is a better quality decoder - nearly any other current decoder you can possibly buy has high frequency drive and won't buzz.

                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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