Hi everyone,
I am currently gearing up to build my first layout. It has been a few years of collecting rolling stock, doing dcc and sound upgrades and a lot of reading and research. Eventually, I have a space carved out for a 11' x 9' doughnut layout, but certainly not quite ready to tackle that animal at the momment... and now I'm really glad I waited.
My plan is to start with a small switching layout (a couple of modules that can eventually be integrated into the large layout). I was looking at the "Switchman's Nightmare" plan but came across a plan on layout vision called the engine service shelf. http://www.layoutvision.com/gallery/id48.html It was designed for a guy in the same position as me with a lot of engines, but not ready for the big layout yet.
This would provide a place to display engines as well as provide some limited operations. I have many of the parts on the way, and the engines are ready to go. The layout is designed as a 18" x 7' 6" layout and I am going to build it in two 18" x 48" sections with a bolt together seam in the middle. This will extend the length by 6".
The layout has 9 turnouts. (5) are #5, (3) #5 wyes and (1) #4R. I will be running mainly Peco #5 Insulfrogs, with Walthers DCC Freindly #5 wyes and a DCC Friendly #4 Right hand turnout. Everything will be code 83 with Atlas flex track. All turnouts will be controlled manually with caboose ground throws.
I basically have 13 Athearn Genesis sound equipped locos. Most are 6-axle (SD70Ace, AC4400, SD45T-2) and some are 4-axle (GP38, GP9). I am running NCE and have a Power Cab and a SB5 smart booster (5 amp) in the box. This will be a one man operation, plus I don't have any additional cabs. I realize this is way too many engines to have on the layout at once, especially to have any operation. I will porbably be running a few 2 or 3 loco consists at a time.
I have decided on a 14 AWG solid wire bus with 20 AWG stranded wire feeders.
Anyway, here are the questions I can't seem to find answers to (sorry so long):
1) Should my bus form a loop to/from the booster or should I just make a straight bus with the booster in the middle?
Update: I found a thread on this one and sounds like it's best not to loop the buss. I think straight run is fine. It will have to be a T shape though to connect to the booster.
2) If it is a straight bus, should I do any termination on the ends? I would like to have a good signal, but I read termination is not needed on a short bus.
Update: From the thread it sounds like snubbers are not neeeded for a short bus run like mine. 4 feet on each side of the booster.
3) If I don't do the resistor and capacitor termination thing, do you just use shrink tube to insulate the wire ends?
4) I want to be able to turn power off to all the spurs, so when I power up the layout I don't have every engine on the layout start up. (How do people with big layouts and a lot of engines deal with this?) I have read for dcc you want to have both rails isolated in blocks and the power can be controlled with small toggle switches. My best guess says to power down both rails I would need Double Pole, Single Throw switches. Anyone know where to find these?
Update: I discovered All Electronics which happens to be 30 minutes from home. My have to pay them a visit.
5) Would (1) circuit breaker on the main bus be sufficient? I figure I will have about 12 small blocks and I can't afford to have that many breakers. I was also thinking of (2) NCE CP6 circuit protectors which would provide a bulb for every block. I want to be safe and will do the quarter test on every block before any engines see the track.
6) What is the best circuit breaker to get? NCE EB-1? DCC Specialties PSX-1?
Anyway, sorry so much information at once. My head is spinning and I'm probably way over complicating everything. I realized I needed to consult the experts here and I really appreciate your assistance in advance!
Thank you so much for any help,
Casey
For that layout, keep it simple. Run the bus down the middle, attach the SB5 to the middle, or one end, whichever is most convenient. Feeders to each track. Maybe 2 feeders on the longer tracks. Basically, any track should get power from feeders, not through rail joiners. You're not really going to need circuit breakers or any of that extra stuff. Just keep it simple. This should be SIMPLER than DC wiring for a layout this basic.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi Randy,
Thanks for the advice. I love simple. Simple is great! I was a little nervous about accidentally melting down $250 locos, $100 decoders or the house with the 5 amps. On the other hand, I've noticed most breakers seem to be rated at 1-2 amps, so it seems like a breaker would be tripping all the time with the booster. Still so much to learn.
Thanks again,
"Keep it simple" as Randy said. You are planning overkill, for sure.
I have an 11'-6" x 8'-4" doughnut. The bus follows the doughnut in 2 directions starting from the command station in the middle of one long side and terminating in the middle of the opposite long side without connecting and without snubbers. I covered the ends of the wires with wire nuts just in case.
The bus is 16 awg stranded; the feeders are 22 awg solid. I believe you will find these adequate and more appropriate wiring types for their functions.
Why the booster for such a modest layout? And why all those blocks and breakers? Doesn't the command station have a built-in breaker?
Finally, to kill the power to a spur, you need only break the feeder to one rail. Or use a power-routing turnout to the spur.
Dante
Hey Dante,
Thanks for the advice. I think I've been reading too much. There are so many DCC sites and books all with different ways to do the same thing. It boggles the mind after a while. I bought the booster thinking of my future large layout and wanting to run a couple of trains at once when I have double track loops to actually let 'em run. My NCE Power Cab is great, but only 2 amps. Not that I would have all 13 locos on this layout at once, but I've read an Athearn Genesis loco with sound draws something like 1 amp each. Would be nice to have a couple (say 2) multi-engine consists powered up at the same time on this layout. It's funny I've read 1 amp per sound equipped loco, but when I bought the booster I read entire club layouts are run on one 5 amp booster. Too much info out there. It gets confusing.
The many blocks are so I can have locos or pre-mated consists simply parked and turned off on a few of the various tracks, and can then decide what I want to power up and run selectively. I can imagine if you had 12 locos parked on the layout and hit the power with no seperation on the layout, all the units would power up at the same time and blow something. Not sure how clubs and large layouts do it. Can't seem to find any info out there on that one. It's probably a simple answer.
I like the spur idea, but with the Peco insulfrog turnouts, I'm not sure they are power routing turnouts? I think they aren't. Still waiting for them to arrive on Friday and test them out on the bench. The question will be answered then. I also read that for dcc it is best to break power to both rails? It is certainly much easier to find SPST switches if I could do that.
Oh, forgot to mention the NCE boosters do have breakers, but again the sites on the internet make it sound like that breaker is not good enough and can still fry things. They really put the fear of God in people!
The fellow for whom I designed that HO scale switching layout has told me that he has a maximum of about 8-10 locos on it at one time -- and usually fewer. Not all are sound-equipped, but I know that he runs the whole thing from one NCE 5 Amp system.
I did originally suggest to him that he wire-in SPST switches in one of the feeders for each of the tracks in the Diesel House and on the Fueling Pad so that he can simply kill the sound when engines are parked there for a while without reaching for the DCC controller. That probably helps with the current draw, too.
ohcase1227My plan is to start with a small switching layout (a couple of modules that can eventually be integrated into the large layout). I was looking at the "Switchman's Nightmare" plan but came across a plan on layout vision called the engine service shelf. http://www.layoutvision.com/gallery/id48.html It was designed for a guy in the same position as me with a lot of engines, but not ready for the big layout yet.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Wow, thank you Byron for the information. I love your site and the designs. I statrted out years ago thinking of 4' x 8' or 5' x 10' layouts but you inspired me to rethink those thoughts. I've wished I could hire you for these kind of questions, but I'm currently in between jobs and funds are tight. I was hoping this layout would provide a fun project to occupy my brain at the moment and learn some things. Unfortunatley it has kind of overloaded my brain!
I'd be happy to send you any pictures of the project if you'd like.
Thank you again,
Those sound locos won;t be drawing anywhere near 1 amp, especially as they will not be pulling a heavy train on this layout, nor will they be moving very fast. I don't think you will have any problems running this with 5 amps of power from the SB5.
The cutoff switches for the house tracks ma be a good idea for another reason - your sanity. Initially it might be impressive with all those sounds locos rumbling away, but I think eventually it may get on your nerves - plus locos being service inside the shop would likely be shut down anyway.
ohcase1227Wow, thank you Byron for the information. I love your site and the designs. I statrted out years ago thinking of 4' x 8' or 5' x 10' layouts but you inspired me to rethink those thoughts.
I'm glad that you found the website useful -- I am always happy when people look beyond the "sacred sheet" HO 4X8.
There is a lot of DCC information on the web that is very arcane -- and unnecessary for the vast majority. For many of us, it's just a matter of good-practice wiring (test along the way), connect the booster, turn knob, run trains.