Rather than start a new thread, I thought I would bring this old one on the subject back to the top...I have a P2K PA unit of the same generation as the B-unit pictured here, and I am converting it to DCC with a Digitrax DN136PS decoder... Simple "plug and plan" EXCEPT - the oscillating "Mars" light doesn't work under DCC (it works flawlessly on DC with the factory "plug" installed)... Since the light worked fine with the DC plug, I (wrongly?) assumed it would function fine with the DCC decoder, since the DC plug only uses the same 8-pin socket as the decoder..??FWIW: The Life Like P2K documentation says nothing at all about DCC conversion, so...???
rrinker richhotrain rrinker That top photo is the N scale version. Note the Rapido couplers. ANd open frame motor. --Randy Oops, is that not what the early release looks like? Rich Maybe the N scale early release. No idea, I do HO. The bottom one is a DCC ready HO one - the 8 pin dummy plug is sort of under all the wires heading to the front from the circuit board. That's one with a Mars light, the 3 wires from the right rear of the circuit board are the common and two filament wires for the dual filament bulb they used to simulate the Mars light. --Randy
richhotrain rrinker That top photo is the N scale version. Note the Rapido couplers. ANd open frame motor. --Randy Oops, is that not what the early release looks like? Rich
rrinker That top photo is the N scale version. Note the Rapido couplers. ANd open frame motor. --Randy
That top photo is the N scale version. Note the Rapido couplers. ANd open frame motor.
--Randy
Oops, is that not what the early release looks like?
Rich
Maybe the N scale early release. No idea, I do HO.
The bottom one is a DCC ready HO one - the 8 pin dummy plug is sort of under all the wires heading to the front from the circuit board. That's one with a Mars light, the 3 wires from the right rear of the circuit board are the common and two filament wires for the dual filament bulb they used to simulate the Mars light.
The first photo is one I found, but I thought that it was the early release. Sorry about that.
That second photo is my HO scale PA, and it is the later release.
Alton Junction
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I'm afraid photo's of the N scale PA won't help me as I have the HO PA.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 I though Mike might know the answer straight out! =P Since it is obvious by looking, what am I looking for? I only have the one PA so I don't have a point of reference.
I though Mike might know the answer straight out! =P
Since it is obvious by looking, what am I looking for? I only have the one PA so I don't have a point of reference.
The first photo is the early release that draws higher amps.
The second photo is the later release with a lower amp draw.
riogrande5761 Mike, Which run was the P2k 4-stripe D&RGW PA from?
Mike,
Which run was the P2k 4-stripe D&RGW PA from?
Your best bet is to remove the shell and determine the motor setup visually. The two runs differ dramatically in appearance.
Thanks, dante.
My PA locos look just like that picture on the TCS website.
I was tempted to go with the TCS decoder, but I had two spare D13SRP decoders that I had previously used on a couple of locos that I sold. Both decoders had damaged 8-pin connectors at the ends of the harnesses, so I send them in to NCE for repair. As soon as I get them back, I will install the decoders and decide what to do about the lights.
My 2 PAs were purchased NIB in 2002 and 2004: one from Trainworld and one on E-Bay. I don't know when they were built, but they are identical in power and drive and are identical to the unit used by TCS in their installation guide on their web site. As I said above, I used the TCS-recommended decoder in each, they run fine on DCC and haven't smoked yet.
Dante
P.S. As you will see on the TCS site, DCC onversion is a simple substitution of the decoder for the DCC plug-no wiring required.
Yeah, the 'bad' ones work fine on DC. I remember when some guys at the club bought them when they first came out. Then again, we ran the layout with those big ControlMaster 20 units. I suspoect if all you had was one of those cheapy train set power packs, it would have issues as well, but anything halfway decent should have no problems running them.
Oh, they run alright...and suck enough current to run an old subway car, 1:1 scale. I did some shell swapping to get what I needed and sold the first run chassis on ebay with full warning. It sold. Probably fine on DC. Known for smoking your average HO decoder, though.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
dante P.S. They are the so-called "Limited Edition" models, if that means anything.
P.S. They are the so-called "Limited Edition" models, if that means anything.
All of them say that on the box. I guess it's technically true, since they never were in continuous production. Doesn't matter if they stop after 100 or 100,000, it's still 'limited'
mlehman Life-Like probably got a good deal on the bulbs from the same guy they bought those awful motors from...
Life-Like probably got a good deal on the bulbs from the same guy they bought those awful motors from...
My awful PA motors run very nicely and smoothly.
richhotrain dante My PAs have 1.5v, 50ma bulbs. Dante I haven't tested the bulbs yet, but I appreciate the info. Size is no indicator. LOL, those are some of the biggest bulbs that I have ever seen. Rich
dante My PAs have 1.5v, 50ma bulbs. Dante
My PAs have 1.5v, 50ma bulbs.
I haven't tested the bulbs yet, but I appreciate the info. Size is no indicator. LOL, those are some of the biggest bulbs that I have ever seen.
From what I recall, this barnburner of a motor was only used in the one run of PAs. Thanks goodness for that, but someone decided to not repeat that mistake.
I have a couple of the older (1990's) Proto E-units and FM "Erie Builts". I just used regular 1 amp decoders, never had a problem.
Oops, forgot to include the link to Mr. DCC's web site page:
http://www.mrdccu.com/install/hods/Life-Like-Proto2000-PA.htm
Yeah the early ones had some ridiculous motor. Under normal operation they don't draw that much, but the stall is in the 3-4 amp range. That is ridiculous even for early HO back in the day, more on par with O scale. At one time, before Walthers bought them out, there was a motor trade in available for owners of those early ones. later models fixed this and have the correct motor that draws HO scale reasonable levels of current and should be fine.
The proto bulbs are either 1.5V or 3V, though they did do some with 12V bulbs. Never consistent. To test them you either need a well-controlled variable power supply (Not a power pack, they don;t have fine enough control) or, you start by assuming 1.5V. Hook up with a resistor appropriate for a 1.5V bulb - of course you need to guess current too, could be 15ma or 30ma. 15ma would use a larger resistor, so start by assuming 1.5V, 15ma. Hook it up. If it doesn't light, or is very dim, try assuming 1.5V, 30ma. Still dim, try 3V, 15ma. Etc.
mlehman Rich, I actually think it's less than 12 volts. There's some diodes and such on the DC board that I suspect requires something lower than 12 volts to account for the V drop going across them. And it's a constant lighting circuit on DC. I've got my old bulb in my hand and there's no identifying marks of any kind. But it is a very special bulb
Rich,
I actually think it's less than 12 volts. There's some diodes and such on the DC board that I suspect requires something lower than 12 volts to account for the V drop going across them. And it's a constant lighting circuit on DC. I've got my old bulb in my hand and there's no identifying marks of any kind. But it is a very special bulb
Even if I replace the bulb with an LED, I am curious about the voltage of the Proto bulb. How do you test it without burning it out?
P.S. I found Bruce Petraca's site and it shows a photo of the first generation P2K PA. It looks different than mine or Mike's PA. Bruce says that the 1st Gen draws between 3 and 4 amps. Yikes !
Before measuring the amps have a look at your meter. Mine has a separate socket for the amps function. The red lead has to be plugged into that socket or your readings will be nonsense. It is an inexpensive meter so I suspect that better quality meters may not be the same, but I have forgotten a couple of times and I couldn't figure out why the readings I got were so high.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Just out of curiosity, is that Proto bulb a 12 volt bulb?
I have 2 and used the TCS DP2X-UK. Simple, literally plug and play, and they work fine. The TCS web site has installation pics for the loco.
The 8 pin plug actually has enough connections for F0F, F0R, and F1, but the NMRA spec leaves one pin blank so nothing fries if you hook it up backwards. However, if you use a decoder that has more than the 2 light functions, you can attach the green wire to the unused pin on the 8 pin connector and then F1 will turn the factory Mars light circuit on and off.
However, it's a hokey system with a dual filament bulb. Pretty much any decoder's Mars light effect is superior to the Proto dual filament thing. For best results, repalce with an LED, is using a decoder that works well with LEDs (NCE, TCS) or an ordinary bulb for those that work best with incandescent lamps (Digitrax).