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mrc control master 20

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mrc control master 20
Posted by lsi3009 on Sunday, March 30, 2014 10:22 PM

Hi all,  I have a mrc control master 20 walkaroud (DC) . Im having problems with the handheld controller, was looking for a new controller on online, ebay, mrc website and esc and can not find a replacement throttle.  does anyone have one or know of a hobby shop that might sell them. 

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Posted by gmpullman on Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:20 PM

I have a spare. If you PM me with your address we can work out a way to get it to you.

Have you tried a different cord? An ordinary telephone rj11 handset cord should work.

Failing that, send me a message through the "Messages" area.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, March 30, 2014 11:32 PM

Are you looking for another MRC throttle like the one you have, or a replacement?  I have several different throttles which use the Controlmaster 20 as a power source.  Two are SCR (silicon controlled rectifiers), and one is a transistorised throttle.  Both run off the AC terminals of the CM20 and both offer very good train control.  However, the throughput of these throttles is somewhat limited, which means they have trouble powering heavy trains or ones with multiple locos.
I also have a PWM (pulse width modulation) throttle from here:

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww3.sympatico.ca%2Fkstapleton3%2FIndex.html&ei=7eo4U8OaFJHLsATXnYKADA&usg=AFQjCNHMqZM3MICGxugt3tX9-IOZw3jnrw&sig2=8dLR2nE46bcnyTQ0F9XT9A&bvm=bv.63808443,d.cWc

 

It takes power from either the AC or fixed DC side of the CM20, but it's capable of running heavy trains and multiple locos (not independently, though).  I've used it to run over a dozen locos at a time and to power heavy trains, too - over 22lbs. in one instance.  Low speed control is excellent, and the momentum feature is adjustable.  I bought mine some time ago, directly from the guy who makes them, as he's not too far from where I live. 

This is a well-built throttle and he backs it up fully.  The MRC throttle has power but poor control, while the PWM throttle is a power sledgehammer with finesse.

Wayne

 

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, March 31, 2014 12:04 AM

Isi3009,

Should it not work out with,Gmpullman. I have two brand new in box never used /W/15FT coil cord, I will part with one should the need arise. I have four MRC 20's that I use, never had any problem's with any of them. The newer designs though, not the ones with the fan. If you do have the one with the fan, the hand held's I have won't work with the older MRC 20's. KEEP THAT IN MIND. Some of the control circuitry in the newer ones are different, better control like Wayne spoke of.

Frank

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Posted by jrbernier on Monday, March 31, 2014 11:26 AM

  There are at least two different CM20 throttles!  They are not interchangeable - I found out when I bought a 3rd CM20 years ago.  

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by lsi3009 on Monday, March 31, 2014 11:31 AM

gmpullman

I have a spare. If you PM me with your address we can work out a way to get it to you.

Have you tried a different cord? An ordinary telephone rj11 handset cord should work.

Failing that, send me a message through the "Messages" area.

Good Luck, Ed

 

hey ed, yes I will take it. No my controller is acting up... Something inside. Please send me a photo of it to my email and we can go from there.  Brijhnroberts1979@hotmail.com

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, March 31, 2014 12:11 PM

Email on its way...

Hope it is the one you need. I see no part number on it.

Ed

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, March 31, 2014 7:18 PM

The New Version MRC 20 Walkaround Throttle, is Item No. AT444. There is no marking on it.

If the OP has that one, they can be fixed.

Frank

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 12:08 AM

Here's what I'm sending...

Dust and all... bought it around 1999 so I don't know if this is new version or old version. OP says he can use it.

Ed

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Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:37 AM

ED,

Yes, That is the new one.

Good for you and your help.

Take Care!

Frank

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Posted by mobilman44 on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 5:36 AM

Hi,

While I can't help the OP (you guys have it well in hand), I just wanted to say that on my previous layout (11x15 two level DC) I had two Controlmaster 20s in use.   They are - IMO - the very best for DC operation.  I sold both of mine on Ebay, getting almost what I paid for them.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by dknelson on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 2:20 PM

jrbernier

  There are at least two different CM20 throttles!  They are not interchangeable - I found out when I bought a 3rd CM20 years ago.  

Jim

 

 
I did not know this -- might explain why I have seen alot of the throttles (presumably the older ones) at swap meets lately.  It seems odd for MRC to do this -- they should have created a new identifier for the unit.
 
Dave  Nelson
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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 3:23 PM

dknelson

 

 
jrbernier

  There are at least two different CM20 throttles!  They are not interchangeable - I found out when I bought a 3rd CM20 years ago.  

Jim

 

 

 
I did not know this -- might explain why I have seen alot of the throttles (presumably the older ones) at swap meets lately.  It seems odd for MRC to do this -- they should have created a new identifier for the unit.
 
Dave  Nelson
 

I'd always thought that my ControlMaster 20 was an older model (it's the version with the fan), but my MRC controller looks the same as that in Ed's photo.  According to the literature in the box, it's from 1997.  Anybody know when these were first produced?

The momentum feature on mine never worked, but it's not a feature which I ever liked anyway - heavy trains, by their nature, start slowly without needing to simulate it. Smile, Wink & Grin


Wayne

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Posted by jrbernier on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 4:27 PM

Wayne,

  My original two units were bought around 1990.  They had the noisy fans.  The 3rd one was bought around 1995 or so.  The actual thottles looked the same, but they were not interchangeable!  I had already gotten into DCC and had not really converted the layout.  By 1998, the entire layout was DCC and it forced me to convert enough engines so I could operate the layout.  by 2001, I upgraded to 'wireless' throttles and had sold the CM20's for $100 each at a local train meet.  I paid something like $100 each 'on sale' at BLW for the first two, so I got my money out of them.  The 3rd one was picked up for something like $75 from a guy selling off his trains.

Jim

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 8:58 PM

I had four of the CM-20s two with fans and two without. I opened them up and took a poke around inside (MRC was never very tidy with their wiring*) and comparing the electronics between the fan/non fan versions they looked identical so I disconnected the annoying fans and they still ran pretty cool even though I never got near the 5 amps they were rated for.

*one also had a pinched wire at the sheet metal enclosure, good thing I caught THAT before the insulation cut through!

I had telco jacks around the layout to plug in for local running.

I remember one had to go back to MRC because it would not "zero" but would only go down to about 3.5VDC

I still use one today for a portion of my layout lighting and it is handy to have the tethered throttle so I can dial down the lamp voltage to extend life. When visitors are present, I dial it up a bit to make the lights shine.

I agree that these were my best throttles before the DCC thing came along. I used two of the CM-20s to power my Digitrax boosters for a while, too. 

Regards, Ed

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Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, April 1, 2014 9:25 PM

The biggest difference between the two systems is the output and the ''Flat Line DC control''. The older MRC 1CM 20 Total output was 85VA, that's the one with the fan, it run hot and had poor control over Momentum and memory did not always work well. The newer MRC CM 20 has a Total output of 100VA, larger heatsink and a lot better overall control of functions, especially at lower speeds. The hand held AT444  is supposed to be used with either one. I believe the misconception came from what's printed on the box, about can only be used with CM 20, also the people who had the old system that had problems with control of momentum, memory and low speed control and thought it was the hand held. Any way I bought three in 1995 when they were 120.00 apiece, the fourth used.

And like I said in my earlier post, the hand held's are rather easy to fix. The parts are all commercially available. Take the two screws out of the bottom cover and take a look.

My experience with having mine and dealing with MRC.

Frank

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, April 2, 2014 12:12 AM

zstripe
The older MRC 1CM 20 Total output was 85VA, that's the one with the fan, it run hot and had poor control over Momentum and memory did not always work well. The newer MRC CM 20 has a Total output of 100VA, larger heatsink and a lot better overall control of functions, especially at lower speeds.

Mine's definitely the older one.  The fan is sometimes a bit noisy on start-up, but I've never had an issue with it running hot.  I run the PWM and SCR throttles off the AC side, and the MRC controller off the DC - it'll easily handle more than a dozen locos at a time, but the momentum control has been useless from day one:  when it's "on", nothing happens for several seconds, then the loco takes off at whatever speed was preset. Laugh  I don't miss it, as it's a feature for which I never particularly cared.


Wayne

 

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Posted by Larry020 on Thursday, April 3, 2014 5:44 PM
Our HO mainline railroad, before 'DCC only' arrived last year, used to use them.  We had 18 (and several spares) in use.  By the way, we also had seven Aristocraft wireless throttles along with several spares. 

Noisy fans were replaced with quiet ones.  Fans were added to ones that didn't have them.  In the very early 90's, I created a network (rats nest actually) of telephone lines for our four walk around throttles on our 120' long RR.  The instructions stated that 20' was possible, but I didn't recall that part until someone showed me the instructions a year later.  

About 15 +/- years ago something inside the CM's would stop working while running a train, and the unit would put out an uncontrollable 20 or so volts.  The solution was to return the unit for a warranty repair.  I don't recall how many went back.  I do recall the MRC tech's name was Doug. 

The CM20's were relegated to yard service once our wireless throttles arrived. 

Our HOn3, HO traction, N, and O RR's still had interest in the CM20 throttles (and radio throttles) mentioned above for their dual mode DC/DCC operations so none of them had to be sold.  That saved us a LOT of trouble. 

I think they will go on for as many years as the encroachment of DCC allows. 

Larry

Post Script  Do you think MRC will ever deliver the handheld for their CM20 replacement, the 9950?
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Posted by zstripe on Monday, April 7, 2014 3:03 PM

Quote:

Larry,

Post Script  Do you think MRC will ever deliver the handheld for their CM20 replacement, the 9950?


 

Larry,

On occasion, I have been thinking the exact same thing. They have been out some time now and still no handheld/ remote. At 130VA, they should have plenty of power, but the price? GEEZ.

Take Care! Smile

Frank

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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, March 4, 2015 4:12 PM

BTW, was in the LHS today and noticed they had maybe half a dozen of the handhelds for the discontinued MRC Controlmaster 20. They were marked as AT450 and 100w. Checking against MRC's website, where it is listed as out of stock, this appears to be the controller for the newer version CM20 without a fan. If you need to know who to contact on these, drop me a PM and I will give you contact info, etc.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

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