Lake Eisen, wow, sorry about responding to your postings. It really seemed to me that you had made up your mind and was not going to care what any one said. And I did temper my reply with a simple suggestion of what I have experienced. Others posting after mine seemed to also feel the same. Any way as other stated it may be those locos just have problems. Sure send them back, it can't hurt.
Eisen, wow, sorry about responding to your postings. It really seemed to me that you had made up your mind and was not going to care what any one said. And I did temper my reply with a simple suggestion of what I have experienced.
Others posting after mine seemed to also feel the same. Any way as other stated it may be those locos just have problems. Sure send them back, it can't hurt.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
wp8thsub zstripe I don't believe anyone was treating you like a child, just being honest. You yourself said ''let fly'' Frank's right. Nobody's treating anyone like a kid here. I know I meant nothing of the sort above, and like Frank I took, "I'd appreciate any suggestions and/or criticism. Let fly!" as a request for some honest feedback, even if it's not what you might want to hear. If, as in the original post, you want "a solid working layout with minimal issues," you have little choice but to get your hands dirty so to speak and do some more of your own troubleshooting. Relying on the manufacturer to do that for you is a formula for long term frustration - they aren't going to make substitutions for their own parts that aren't quite up to snuff, nor are they going to do any additional engineering to address inherent design flaws in their own product. If you're going to flat refuse to do any of the dirty work yourself right now, maybe you can find somebody local who can show you what can be done to diagnose the issue and how to do some maintenance without undue concern for messing something up. I get it; many hobbyists don't like to tear into an expensive loco and risk breaking it or voiding the warranty. Many also don't like the idea of having to replace OEM components on a model that may have cost $150 or more. Unfortunately sometimes such things are tough to avoid. Something that always helps when dealing with a forum discussion is to "make the positive assumption," assuming the other person is genuinely truing to help or otherwise do the right thing. I'd like nothing more than to hear you got those problem locos running and maybe gain some experience and self-confidence in the process. I bet everybody else on the thread would too.
zstripe I don't believe anyone was treating you like a child, just being honest. You yourself said ''let fly''
Frank's right. Nobody's treating anyone like a kid here. I know I meant nothing of the sort above, and like Frank I took, "I'd appreciate any suggestions and/or criticism. Let fly!" as a request for some honest feedback, even if it's not what you might want to hear. If, as in the original post, you want "a solid working layout with minimal issues," you have little choice but to get your hands dirty so to speak and do some more of your own troubleshooting. Relying on the manufacturer to do that for you is a formula for long term frustration - they aren't going to make substitutions for their own parts that aren't quite up to snuff, nor are they going to do any additional engineering to address inherent design flaws in their own product.
If you're going to flat refuse to do any of the dirty work yourself right now, maybe you can find somebody local who can show you what can be done to diagnose the issue and how to do some maintenance without undue concern for messing something up. I get it; many hobbyists don't like to tear into an expensive loco and risk breaking it or voiding the warranty. Many also don't like the idea of having to replace OEM components on a model that may have cost $150 or more. Unfortunately sometimes such things are tough to avoid.
Something that always helps when dealing with a forum discussion is to "make the positive assumption," assuming the other person is genuinely truing to help or otherwise do the right thing. I'd like nothing more than to hear you got those problem locos running and maybe gain some experience and self-confidence in the process. I bet everybody else on the thread would too.
zstripeI don't believe anyone was treating you like a child, just being honest. You yourself said ''let fly''
Rob Spangler
Eisen,
I don't believe anyone was treating you like a child, just being honest. You yourself said ''let fly''
Quote:
I'd appreciate any suggestions and/or criticism. Let fly! I want to have a solid working layout with minimal issues. I guess I can solder feeders to the center of each piece of flex track if I have to. I just usually make a mess of it.
Restpectfully,
Frank
See the comment i mistakenly posted as an answer to Lake's post.
Lake Eisen, If you did not follow any of the advice given here by experianced modelers, you better get use to digging into your locos or you will be sending back a lot. Model railroading is a hands on hobby, and takes learning the skills needed to keep it fun. Yet the basics count. I do N-Scale and if all the track and wiring is correct then 90% of running problems, such as you discribe, are do to dirty engine pick up wheels. You must keep them clean as there is no magic spell that will do it for you. Then you look for other problems such as others have discribed. Ken Price
Eisen, If you did not follow any of the advice given here by experianced modelers, you better get use to digging into your locos or you will be sending back a lot. Model railroading is a hands on hobby, and takes learning the skills needed to keep it fun.
Yet the basics count. I do N-Scale and if all the track and wiring is correct then 90% of running problems, such as you discribe, are do to dirty engine pick up wheels. You must keep them clean as there is no magic spell that will do it for you. Then you look for other problems such as others have discribed.
Ken Price
LakeIf you did not follow any of the advice given here by experianced modelers, you better get use to digging into your locos or you will be sending back a lot.
+1 to that. Especially if you're dealing with a product that suffers from known issues with the OEM parts, if you send the thing back you're likely going to get the same problematic OEM parts in it when it's returned. Atheran Genesis trucks are commonly afflicted by axles that fail to make proper contact with the bearing strips. Sometimes they work great at first, then the connection degrades over time. If you get your own locos back or replacements with the same parts, the same problem can eventually surface again. Back and forth slop in the worms isn't nearly as common with Genesis mechanisms, but I suppose it's not unheard of. Either of these trouble spots can be quite easily fixed with some DIY effort and the skills learned in the process will help you diagnose and correct problems encountered in other models.
skagitrailbird Have you checked the worm gears for excessive forward/rear movement? Many locomotives need an additional thrust washer or two to take out the slack in the worm gear box. The excessive slack may cause a locomotive to surge forward, then relax, then forward again, etc. This is particularly noticable when locomotives are consisted. Good luck!
Have you checked the worm gears for excessive forward/rear movement? Many locomotives need an additional thrust washer or two to take out the slack in the worm gear box. The excessive slack may cause a locomotive to surge forward, then relax, then forward again, etc. This is particularly noticable when locomotives are consisted.
Good luck!
You could try adding a "keep alive" gizmo from TCS. I have an old Life-Like 0-8-0 that doesn't have power pick up from the trucks of the tender, and ran horribly due to poor power pickup. I put in a TCS decoder with built-in "keep alive" and it runs fine now. Digitrax makes something similar now too.
Also, you could try adjusting the CVs to turn off any BEMF and see if that helps, and make sure your DCC system is set to the same number of speed steps as the decoders.
Bob C.
Take a look and read some of the replys and remedy's given on this site:
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/16295
EisenOne (Athearn F-7) Does it at all speeds. More like a juddering then a stuttering. The locos seem to jerk slightly forward slightly. Nothing stops.
Sounds like it could be intermittent power pickup from the axles, which is a common problem affecting older Genesis mechanisms, especially the F units. The shape of the axle doesn't properly engage the bearing strip and contact is lost. New wheelsets from Northwest Short Line can work, and I've also heard of people fixing the problem by gently hammering the axles out a bit on the original Athearn parts so they extend farther into the bearing strip.
No shorts. Happens on straight track and curves. It's three of my six locos and the others run smoothly. One stutters at low speed and gets better at faster speeds. One occurs at low speeds. Did find one of the wheel sets had almost no side to side motion. The one that has the problem at low speeds. That I will send back for warranty repair (BLI). One (Athearn F-7) Does it at all speeds. More like a juddering then a stuttering. The locos seem to jerk slightly forward slightly. Nothing stops.
Are the stuttering problems randomly scattered around the layout, or are there particular spots where they happen?
Do you see momentary shorts when an engine stutters? Leave another engine idling somewhere on the layout with its headlight on. If that headlight flickers when the running engine stutters, you may be getting a short.
Since you mentioned Peco turnouts, you may have a problem that I've seen on my layout. The frogs are plastic, but the rails coming into them get very close, but not quite touching. These rails are of opposite polarity. They are close enough that a metal wheel may occasionally "bridge" the gap, causing a momentary short. If you run at night and turn off all the lights, you might see a spark at the gap. The solution is to paint over that small gap with clear nail polish to insulate the rails there.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Bob,
What I have done is to cut a strip of GOOD quality paper towel and use a push pin (thumbtack) to hold it down, soak it in alcohol, then run your engine at slow speed (diesels are easier since one truck can be cleaned while the other is picking up current) with steam, you might be able to keep the tender on the powered rails while the drivers still turn.
Still, you can push the engine over the soaked towel to clean the non-geared wheels.
Good luck, Ed
Thank you. i will do so tonight. I have a wheel cleaner from woodland scenic but don't trust it. You put it on the track and the loco stradles a central area with wheels on a pad. Can't use DCC Steamers on it because can't connet tenders. I will try cleaning all the wheels and let you know. Thanks again.
Eisen A Rapido FP9 has a slight stuttering problem as well as one of my two F-7 Atheran Genesis locos. I noticed it on the F-7's when I consisted them. I ran them individually and found one of them with that slight stutter and the other ran smoothly.
Hi, Bob
I would tend to look at the individual locomotives rather than suspecting the entire layout.
See this thread about Genesis pickup problems: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/228382.aspx
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/228382.aspx (sorry, cannot make it clickable, you have to copy>paste)
How about wheel cleaning as well? I'm amazed at the varying performance I get from different locomotives in regards to wheel composition. Most of my engines run beautifully without much attention, yet others-mainly some Proto 2000 engines and the much older Athearns with the sintered steel wheels- require frequent wheel cleaning. Usually a paper towel with alcohol is enough but sometimes I use the Kadee Speedie cleaner (brass bristled brush with track power)
Take a closer look at the problem locos and let us know if you find anything... Ed
Ok. The closer I look at my layout the more I seem to notice. Trying to decide the difference between having OCD (Obssesive Compulsive Disorder) and what is acceptable on my DCC layout. I have a mix of HO MTH, Athearn Genesis diesels and steamers. My MTH diesels seem to run very smoothly with no discernible issues. A Rapido FP9 has a slight stuttering problem as well as one of my two F-7 Atheran Genesis locos. I noticed it on the F-7's when I consisted them. I ran them individually and found one of them with that slight stutter and the other ran smoothly. I have an older GP-7 from Athearn that runs smooth as silk interestingly enough. I maintain the track weekly. Once a month I do a more thorough cleaning. My layout is basically a modified oval with a long section of double track and a short area were it turns into single track. A mixture of PECO electrofrogs and Walthers "DCC Friendly" number 6 turnouts. Also a four track yard that is isolated from the main with rail insulators. The bus wire (pretwisted) runs under the track about half way in either direction and is not continous (basically two arms that loop around from the center in either direction). The connection to the DCC controller (Prodigy Express Squared) is connected to a DCC circuit breaker and then the bus wire at the approximate middle.
Now here's where I know I'll catch some heat. I'm using Peco presoldered rail connectors between every piece of Peco flex track. Haven't soldered them. Not experiencing any shorts or issues with locomotives stopping and starting. I have a volt meter and see no voltage drop throughout my layout. The quarter test works fine.
The layout is approx 24 feet long and 4 feet wide except at each end were it is 8 feet wide.
Thanks for your consideration.