I'm afraid my DCS-51 smoked tonight after a mere 20hrs of use. I had a J just sitting on a siding while I ran a SD-45 around (just lubed it). It went nicely around the layout for about 5 minutes and I was just about to change directions when it slowed down to about half speed for 10ft and then stopped. The DCS started flashing the oooo indicating a short. Easy enough, I hit the track power button and picked up the engine (no shell) to look at the wiring. No issues there. I set it back on the track and the J started off on it's own, and the SD decoder smoked. I tried hitting the track power again, but the unit was non responsive. I grabbed the SD and pulled it off the track and tried the power button again to no avail. The display kept flashing loco 4 and the little buzz of a short. I grabbed the J off the track, but the unit kept flashing and buzzing with nothing on the track. I unplugged it and checked the track, but it was clear. I pulled the track wire connector and plugged the unit back in and it still flashed loco4, then even that disappeared and just the track power led would flash a little. I let it set for an hr and tried plugging it in again and now, nothing. That whole ordeal took well under a minute, more like 15-20sec. Is the DCS that prone for damage?
I'm going to give Digitrax a call tomorrow. Biggest problem is I bought it when it was released, so thats been a couple years now. It's just sat in the box.
The only thing that I can offer is to extend my condolences.
Been there, done that.
Rich
Alton Junction
TomLutman...The DCS started flashing the oooo indicating a short. Easy enough, I hit the track power button...
I have read that with the DCS51, if you turn off track power while it is indicating a short, it can somehow fry the DCS51. I suspect the SD decoder died first causing the initial short, then turning off track power killed the DCS51. The J taking off was probably caused by the DCS51 putting straight DC on the track when powered back up(I have read of at least one other incident of a fried DCS51 doing that).
Although I like most Digitrax products, this seems to be a MAJOR design flaw. When I have a short, my first instinct is to shut off track power. I have a DCS50, and luckily it doesn't have the same problem, at least mine hasn't died yet. The DCS51 manual does say not to shut off track power during a short, but it is just a single sentence buried in the "Emergency Stop" section of the manual, it really needs to be a more prominent warning. If I had a DCS51, I think I would put a layout power kill switch between it and the layout so that I could kill power in the event of a short.
CSX Robert, if you turn off track power while it is indicating a short, it can somehow fry the DCS51.
The DCS 51 does not have a breaker? If it does why did the breaker not trip? Should it not cut power by itself in a short or do you the operator have to shut track power while something is cooking?
Don't short your track or you will fry the DCC system! I can see why that statement is not in the sales brochures.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
No, the DCS51 DOES have a circuit breaker, and it works correctly. The track shorts and the circuit breaker trips cutting power to the track. It then continually resets and if the short is still there it trips again. Up to this point it acts like pretty much any other DCC system out there. The problem occurs if you hit the power button to turn off track power while there is a short - you are supposed to leave track power on until you remove the short.
CSX RobertThe problem occurs if you hit the power button to turn off track power while there is a short - you are supposed to leave track power on until you remove the short.
To me- that makes NO BLOODY SENSE!!!!! What happens if you cannot find the short? I think that would be a really bad design issue that should have been addressed, but if I recall right, the DCS-51 was delayed and delayed some more for release for some reason. I know I bought the DCS-50 and 2 days later the DCS-51 was finally released so I returned my unused unit and ordered in the 51.
I sent off an e-mail to Digitrax. While I am disappointed in this situation, I will see how they think this should be handled. That will determine which vendors I support in the future
Gotcha. It sounds like the turn on threashhold is not too sensitive. My Power cab and the clubs Lenz system will not turn on until after the short is removed. My friends Super Chief is protected by lots of separate breakers that trip well bellow the Chief trips and they will not send track power until the short is no longer detected. Some will not start back up if there are three sound equipped locos in the block. Digitrax sould repair the unit for no cost if it is a design fault.
There's a firmware update from jan 13 of last year that resolves some issues with the system not recovering properly from a short. It shouldn;t fry when there's a short, that's what the breaker is for, My original Zephyr is over 12 years old, and I've shorted my track deliberately as well as accidently many many times - in fact you WANT to deliberately short the layout - by doing the quarter test, to make sure the breaker trips instead of the system frying your expensive loco when it derails.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have a DCS51. Although I do not remember for sure a specific instance, I am relatively certain that I have on one or more occasions turned off the track power during a short with no damaging consequences. The product manual - although it says not to turn off power during a short as you note - also acknowledges in Section 22 that one might just do that, and that in such an event you will simply have to repower the track after you clear the short. If you clear the short without turning off the power, the loco will restart without your having to repower the track. Apparently no problem.
I suggest that you reset the DCS51 to factory default. That might correct matters.
Dante
P.S. I have never seen "Loco4" on the display. Is that your loco number ID?
danteI suggest that you reset the DCS51 to factory default. That might correct matters
danteP.S. I have never seen "Loco4" on the display. Is that your loco number ID?
Yes. It was flashing "loco" then "04" then the short and kept repeating rapidly. The affected engine had address 04
I don't have the "Z", I have the Super Chief, but I would still be very interested in seeing Digitrax' reply to your inquiry.
Please post it verbatim when it comes.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
The only 'electrical' problem with the DCS51 that I am aware of was what Randy alluded to. In that case, selected DCS51's would indicate a 'short', but not auto-recover unless the power was removed. The 'problem' was found to be a batch of external power supplies from the vendor that met the design critera, but just barely. What Digitrax did was change the 'firmware' to handle the situation in the future. A 'firmware' patch was issued last year and I downloaded it and applied it to my DCS51 via the PR3 interface. This problem was very intermitant and only affected a small number of units. I never saw the problem(repeated shorts with a 'quarter' were recovered from each time), But I remember someone having it fail 'every' time, and another person having it fail an avererage or 2 out of 10 times if they ran the quarter test. I think there may be an old thread here about the issue, and it is in the Digitrax Yahoo User Group forums.
In your case, maybe it is related. Since you DCS51 appears to be far out of warranty - I suspect you may need to pay the $25 service charge to have it repaired. Go onto the Digitrax web site and under Support you can find the information for returning it. I would give Digitrax a call first and discuss this issue with them - They may replace it if this sounds like the same issue.
I had a DCS50 Zephyr die about 2 years ago. It was one of the original ones for the early 2000's when they first came out. I had them repair it($25 IIRC) and it arrived back home in less than a month. That unit is still working(I gave it to a retired friend to replace his expired Prodigy Express).
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Tom,
Sometimes a device setting will be changed without any direct intervention by the operator. I am no expert but have had it happen with both the command statiion and decoders. The short or some other apparently unrelated activity can do that. Resetting the command station and the loco decoders, too, to their factory defaults is a quick and easy effort that might work and will do no harm.
My command station power supply was one of those to which Jim refers. The command station operated the locos okay, but the quarter test was hit and miss around the layout. When the firmware was changed, the quarter test worked consistently. I doubt if that has anything to do with your problem, but if your quarter tests are inconsistent, you should obtain the new firmware.
Also, this is pretty much the most common fault mode for ANY electronic device. It may power up just fine, but the first time the component is actually stressed is when it will give up the ghost. Probably a strong argument for not socking away expensive electronics for "maybe someday", or at least fully testing them - driving their intended load, not just plugging in and verifying that the power comes on and it lights up. That way, if there is a marginal component, you catch it while the device is under warranty and it won't cost anything to replace it. If the device works under load right from the beginning, then odds are pretty good that unless it gets abused, it will last a good long time.
You might want to test the voltage from the power supply to verify that it isn't just the power supply instead of the main unit. Sometimes a power brick like that will have a fusible link inside that is non-repalceable and in the event of overload simply burns through and cuts off power. It would explain why nothing lights up when you plug it in. Suitable replacemens can be obtained inexpensively from many sources, it's a power supply commonly used for laptops and some LCD monitors.
Wow, Tom. I am sorry to here that. Train toys are not cheap.
danteResetting the command station and the loco decoders, too, to their factory defaults is a quick and easy effort that might work and will do no harm.
It probably wouldn't, but since the command station has no lights and is non-responsive. it probably won't do any good either
rrinkerProbably a strong argument for not socking away expensive electronics for "maybe someday", or at least fully testing them - driving their intended load, not just plugging in and verifying that the power comes on and it lights up.
I had no means of fully testing it. I had many engines, but no decoders. Top that off with only being able to lay an oval with 18r curves and you can see the problems. Most of my steam don't do 18r curves. I also had too many "life" issues come up which placed any train thing on the back burner
rrinkerYou might want to test the voltage from the power supply to verify that it isn't just the power supply instead of the main unit.
That's some sound advice. I will check it shortly, even though I don't have much hope there. During this incident, it literally smoked that chip. It stunk to high heaven, and when I grabbed the engine I also managed to burn my finger on it in my haste to get it off the track.
Doesn;t take much to smoke a decoder, especially if the fault was such that the track power contacted the motor drive. The DCS51 is capable of 3 amps, and most HO decoders are rated for much less than that, so you cna put enough power through a decoder to smoke it without exceeding the system's capacity. That's why the quater test is so critical - setting a quarter on the rail WITHOUT pushing down on it is a rather high resistence short - similar to if a loco derails and rests against the opposite rail with no more than its own weight pushing down. On a properly wired layout, this will cause the circuit breaker to trip. If it doesn't, that means that less than the breaker's rated current is flowing through that short. In the case of the DCS51, you can have a 'short' drawing 2.5 amps and it won;y shut off, because it's drawing less than the rating of the DCS51. 2.5 amps at 12 volts is 30 watts. Ever try to touch a 25 watt light bulb? Kinda hot.
The wierd flashing of LOCO 4 sort of sounds like the power supply cutting out rather than the main console, too.
I tested the power supply, and it comes up at 14.3vdc, and oddly enough the track comes up at .32vac. The only life I get is the track indicator light dimly coming on and flashing sometimes for up to 3 seconds before fading away to nothing. Occasionally when plugging the unit in the track indicator light comes on bright for just a flash before going out. I also tried another power supply and the only thing that happened was the track indicator light dimly flashing as it would for a short indication. I'm pretty sure it's fried
Was worth a try. Does sound fried. Is that witht he track connected or just the DCS51 with no other wires attached besides the power supply? Long shot, but even though the display is blank and all, try pressing the buttons in sequence for the OpSw 39 reset. (I think it's Program, Switch, 3,9, Closed, but verify with what it says in the manual) Since the display is blank it probably won;t work but it can;t hurt. it's possible the wierd power fluctuations hosed the CPU rather than fried it.
Got a response from Digitrax bright and early this morning. It is probably the same form letter they send to everyone having an issue. In a nutshell it says to send the item along with receipt for warranty, or item plus form of payment for out of warranty. What's the normal cost of those repairs? What about the fried decoder? Money is kinda tight right now, so I may end up deconverting some engines and hooking up the dc transformer
Should be $25 for out of warranty repair for a DCS51, according to the warranty selector on the Digitrax site. If they will consider it under warranty, it would be free.
rrinker Should be $25 for out of warranty repair for a DCS51, according to the warranty selector on the Digitrax site. If they will consider it under warranty, it would be free. --Randy
I saw that, but I also saw the "*" too, which talks about some parts costing more. I get lucky that way, but not in the good way
When I sent my old DCS50 in 2-3 years ago, the S+H+Insurance came to about $12 - Digitrax payed for the shipping back to me. $37 for a repqired unit that was 10 years old seemed pretty reasonable. That unit is still in service at a friends layout.