I twisted (uncertain whether the drivers are a simple press fit or knurled, I assumed the former) what looked like an offending driver and that reduced the binding substantially but it ran fairly erratically and sounded alot like a sewing machine.
I talked with Bachmann service today. They said to send it in, $45 for a Spectrum. They do not repair Spectrum's but rather replace them. So in the end I'll have learned a bit (valuable), have a new item (at a total price of a new item) to convert to DCC and possibly have to change the road name. Not a great but not a horrible experience as in the last two weeks I've learned how to attack a diesel (P2K gears) and a steamer (Bachmann).
Thanks again for all the input.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Paul,
I did not have a receipt for my engine either, I bought it on Ebay as used. I would call them before doing anything else and see what they will do. As I mentioned earlier, I sent them a used PRR K-4 and got a brand new one for the $25. Worth the try.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
To do it right you'd have to remove the side rods and take out each wheelset and check on a quartering jig like the one NWSL sells. However, there's usually enough slop in the rods on a mass produced model that you should be able to do it by feel and get is close enough to run smoothly. You would still disconnect the rods, but leave parts connected. First dropt he piston rods and see if it's that causing the bind or not. Not too likely unless the rods are bend or the holes where it slides into the pistons are full of flash or something. Then start witht he rods - not sure how they are arranged on that loco, I'm not looking at the exploded view, but if there's one main rod attached to all 4 cranks on a side, you can completely remove one side and if the issue is quartering, it should be smooth. To figure out which one, remove the screw for the middle two drivers on both sides, see if it's smooth. The connect the rear and second drivers, disconnecting the others, then try first and second, and finally thrid and fourth. Whichever one binds is going to be the one out of quarter.
Yes, time consuming, but so was real steam loco maintenence. If it was under warranty I would just send it back to Bachmann and they'd fix it, they seem to have excellent service. Whatever's binding it up, it probbaly was there from new and either the original owner didn;t care enough to send it back for repair or possibly they took it apart and messed up the reassembly and so didn't try to send it in for repair.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
How can I tell which of 4 drivers is off quarter, by feel? Do I then put pliers on each wheel and twist? Can I do it while siderods are on? Worth trying as it's no good.
It's very likely is came that way though. Probably is just slightly out of quarter. You don;t need to repalce the whole chassis becaise of that, you can easily adjust that, especially if it's just a slight amount - if it was REALLY out of quater it would stop completely and jam the valve gear, so if that is what the issue is, it's just a slight twist of the offending axle.
The main key to a suiccessful second hand purchase is lots of pictures. If the seller onl;y shows one or two pictures and not all sides, what are they hiding? I wouldn;t buy anything with DCC installed without seeing a picture "under the hood" unless I was planning to rip out anything that may already be there anyway. Sometimes it's a surprise - the brass RS-3 I picked up, I tried it on address 00 and it wouldn;t run, so I figured it had a bad wire or something. Took it apart - there was a decoder installed. Reset the address to 3 and it ran, but I pulled it and replaced it with a modern decoder - my fleet is 100% TCS for non-sound anyway.
Bob, I got impatient with waiting to get DC power to try it w/o the decoder, the idea to rule out electrical issues on the jumpiness / lurching. I have a diagram for that or a similar version so started taking it apart. So I wound up with the chassis which I can roll along the track and observe.
It has major binding issues at two spots per driver rotation. I can't see interference with the siderods or valve gear so it may be the quartering issue. I see a $40 chassis assembly available from Bachmann parts and will talk to them Monday to confirm it's for my model #. Since I don't have a "new" product receipt, I'd be happy to pay $25 for it and keep the UP livery I want, unless alternately they would replace for a new UP for $25.
I admit this may sour me on non-commercial internet purchases, at least if not advertized as new/unused. This one I found with a web search (not on Ebay) and it was not near the condition indicated (other issues also). But with a new mechanism it should be fine and be a decent base for a DCC / sound end product.
I purchased a similar 2-8-0 (Bachmann Spectrum) on Ebay and it had mechanical issues with one of the drivers; it was out of quarter, that is one of the drivers has slipped on its axle and thrown it out of sync with the other driver on the same axle. I had to send it to Bachmann service for repair/replacement. I wound up paying $25 and they sent me a new loco. These are great running locos and I have 3 of them, all DCC now and one is the new Sound On Board version (Love this loco!!). Just call Bachmann service and explain your problem; they will most likely do the same. They use to have a lifetime warranty on their engines.
-*Bob
Try a hobby shop that sells RC planes and cars. They often have have packages of assorted small sizes. That's where I get mine.
Joe
Most places that sell decoders and accessories have the small size shrink wrap. Radio Shack has some in an assortment but there's not a lot of the real small size in the pack. I have a large coil of the small stuff I got from a vendor at a train show.
Thanks again, everyone. No way I could get into these type things w/o the forum help!
rrinkerYes, if you clip out the decoder and connect one track lead to one motor wire and the other track lead to the other motor wire, it should run fine on DC
That will be step 1. I need to determine the basic running usefulness first. Step 1A is to get a DC power pack as I've only NCE now. I'll buy something (maybe MRC 1300) I can use for testing and/or will be useful for lighting. The Lenz will not be reused.
BTW, where would I get the teeny shrink wrap for soldered connections for these fine wires. I doubt the big box stores will have it? Radio Shack? I hate to make a web order and pay shipping for one thing. I could combine with a new decoder if places like Tony's Trains have it.
"Hard wire" decoders look like the wires are integral to the decoder, but they're usually actually plugged into a nine-pin "harness" with wires coming out the other end to solder to the engine connections. You can pull the decoder apart from the harness, and plug in a sound decoder using the 9-pin connection pretty easily. Sometimes the decoder's outer plastic covers the place where the decoder and harness join, so you may have to take a single-edge razor blade or X-Acto knife and cut away 1/8" or so of the plastic covering.
Yes, if you clip out the decoder and connect one track lead to one motor wire and the other track lead to the other motor wire, it should run fine on DC.
Just remembered, I use Vero PC board bought from the UK via ebay for making a tie point PC board. Add a resistor where needed. Meter to trace the leads but normally make a drawing.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Thanks, fellas, very helpful.
richg1998Pull the decoder. Insert the six pin adapter. Run the loco on DC
The Lenz is just hard wired in. I have no original board or 6-pin adapter. Could I test it mechanically on DC by removing the Lenz, just (temporarily) connecting the track leads to the motor wires (leave the lighting wires unconnected until decoder install)? If I can't solve a (probable) mechanical issue this may have been a bad buy (but I'm far from giving up).
Get a cheap digital meter at Lowes or Home Depot. Learn how to use it. Not difficult. Using a meter will help a lot in wiring and troubleshooting a loco. I use mine a lot. It can be tough trying to work at the component level without a meter.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm
I have used these meters for some years. Why add to the frustration.
Sone deny this but my meters read about 13.6 VAC on the rails when using the NCE DCC systems.
Look at the below link. Store any links in Favorites. You will need them. Do a lot of reading. This link is a few years old.
http://members.shaw.ca/sask.rail/dcc/2-8-0/index.html
Pull the decoder. Insert the six pin adapter. Run the loco on DC.
How does it run?
Generally the PC board contains, capacitors, two inductors, resistors. The inductors might be wire wound, some look like green resistors. Those components are required on the other side of the Pond so Bachmann just includes the same type PC boards in all DCC models.
Those parts do not affect running on DC.
For DCC, many cut the caps. Rivet counters hardwire. Can be difficult for those who do not understand DCC wiring and Bachmann does not use NMRA colors for wring.
The parts are clearly marked on the PC board. I have some Bachmann steamers.
There will be resistors for LED's.
The 2-8-0 has a light bulb but I have heard of dim lights in the 2-8-0 which indicates there is a resistor for the light bulb.
If you get a different Bachmann steamer, don't assume they will be like the 2-8-0. Bachmann is known to be inconsistent.
Many times, not all, looking at the loco diagrams at the Bachmann site will show you what is in the loco. There are photos of parts included in many Bachmann locos.
Resistors for the LEDs, diodes for constant lighting maybe. The rest of it? Who the heck knows. That's why I always hardwire.
If this model has an LED for the light and there are no resistors, it's probably blown out. A decoder that old most definitely did not include current limiting for LEDs. If it's a bulb, it could just be burned out. The only way you can really test either way is to disconnect the wires fromt he decoder and apply power - do not apply power with the function wires attached to the decoder. Use a 1K resisot and 12V, try both polarities. If it's an LED it should work. If it's a low voltage light bulb it should work without blowing. If it doesn't work, it could be a 12V bulb, so try without the resistor.
The factory boards really do nothing but provide a connection point, and the most you cna do on DC is have directional lighting, and constant lighting by adding more diode drops to the motor. This stiff gets bypassed for the most part when you pull the dummy plug and plug in a decoder - usually the resistors for the LEDs stay in the circuit. ALl that other stuff - just confusing, it may actually do something, but in many cases it's just there because maybe some other model uses the same board. You cna trace the circuits to see what's actually connectect. Again, this confusing nature is why I remove that junk. ALl you need are track pickups into the decoder, motr leads out, and then blue and white, with a resistor, to the LED headlight, adn blue and yellow, with a resistor, to the rear LED light. Nothing more, nothing less, and certiainly there is nothing on that factory board that would improve things. It can only either have no effect, or make things worse. Either to remove it and have no issues.
Do look on the back of the motor, not all bachmann locos have the caps for the motor on the factory board, in fact one of the ones pictured in one of the previous links in this thread shows one where the caps and coils are on a small board attached directly to the motor. That's despite there being another board in the tender.
Randy, I presume any capacitors generally causing run problems were the ones on an 8-pin DCC ready board like I've seen on other threads (that should be removed if the decoder is attached to the 8-pin board). But the factory board is gone and the Lenz has 7 items direct wired, with the purple and green unused.
I'm ok with it just running for now with the Lenz on any address as the priority is to determine the rear drivers hopping problem (likely mechanical). If I can make it run with the drivers in smooth contact with the track (vs. jumping) I can then change the decoder, add speaker and address the lights issue. So the (likely) mechanical issue is the priority. I'd like to solve that w/o taking to the LHS and spend $ on the mechanical problem, then add $$ to personally add decoder / sound.
On another angle, I'm pretty confused about locos with DCC ready factory boards. What functions do those boards have before any DCC conversion? I presume some resistors may be there for the lights, but is there other circuitry on the board that functions out of the box, like smoothing voltage changes to the motor?? What confuses me is I presume a sound decoder (e.g., Tsunami) can be added wired to the 8-pin connector (leaving the original board there) but is it not also possible to hard wire the decoder in and rip out the board? Does that require appropriate resistors for the light that were on the board? And if there's non-lighting circuitry on the original board, how can the decoder be wired both via the board (going thru the board circuitry) or hard wired (discarding that circuitry)?
BTW, regarding the 2-8-0 lights not working, there are no resistors I've noted from the Lenz to the lights. Is that right, or did someone wire it wrong and maybe burn out the lights? should I test the bulbs with straight DC?
I'm confused, so thanks!
That's an OLD decoder, but at least it has BEMF (from 1996 it appears). Makre sure the capacitors on teh motor are removed - on some Bachmann loocs they are on the tender board and thus would be gone with this install, on others they are directly mounted ont he motor. These capacitors interfere with the motor control high frequency drive and BEMF and can make the loco run poorly. That decoder may not have a reset, being so old. For programming you may have to try a different programming mode, though the instructions claim it supports all NMRA program modes, except that direct bit I don;t think was established at that time, so Paged mode might work better, or if your system has the option, it does say it supports direct byte mode. Or just program it on the main, set CV1 to 3, then set CV29 to 6, and it should run on address 3.
Well, my 2-8-0 purchase arrived today. Forget the 8-pin DCC ready aspect as it has a Lenz 130 (LE130 I presume) decoder hard wired in. Motor only (not sound).
- I can get it to run on address 721 (the loco number). I can't seem to successfully do a reset on it using CV8 to 33 (is that right?) on the main nor the program track and turning off, then back on. Nor will trying to change address to 03 work for me (on the main nor the program track).
- The headlight and backup light don't work, though wired (at least the backup I can see as I opened the tender).
- It runs poorly, not so great forward but quite poorly in reverse. It looks like the rear drivers are jumping vertically a bit / it therefore lurches, so I think it's mechanical. I can't see any binding of the rods mechanism.
I'd like to understand mainly (a) how the decoder can be reset and address changed from there and especially (b) how to troubleshoot the mechanical driver "jumping" / lurching. I'm not so worried about the lighting now. I'd like to get it running smoothly enough so I can decide whether it's worth a decoder/speaker upgrade to sound and then address the lighting.
The below link is from the Bachmann site. The diagram shows a light bulb.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/H114X-IS001.PDF
I would suggest looking at all the Bachmann site They show diagrams, parts list, returning a defective loco, forums for different scales, etc. Many helpful people there.
Register your loco with them and keep the sales receipt in case the loco is defective.
I gave you useful links already for this loco.
I have heard of complaints in the past about a dim light bilb. There is a resistor on the PC board. It is there for longer light bulb life. When a layout is powered up, there is usually a voltage surge that can shorted the light bulb life.
Clip off the capacitors. They are marked with a C. The two inductors are not an issue with no capacitors. Much easier than hard wiring. I have done both.
Thanks all. I have a near new (purchased but at most tested on an incomplete layout) DCC ready Spectrum on the way. So I'm committed. Will do Locksound or Tsunami. Will open the tender to check out the specifics and then probably call Tonys Trains (and/or another you suggest) as I will need specific advice on which exact parts to get (decoder, speaker, gasket, enclosure if able to use one, etc).
Don't know if the headlight is bulb or LED and if the latter: how easy to change it? I haven't taken a loco apart since the 60's.
the Bachmann non-Spectrum 2-8-0 was a basic train set piece of junk. The Spectrum 2-8-0(and later Bachmann 'Standard' Line) engines are very good runners. They have a DCC socket in the tender. If it is available for a good price with 'Sound Onboard', it should have a Tsunami sound decoder factory installed.
Bachmann also had a version with an old Soundtraxx sound decoder that was DCC only in operation. I bought a pair of these sound decoders(they were designed especially for the Spectrum engine) and installed them into my pair of 2-8-0's. The sound is decent, but the fine motor control is not there. One has to remind themselves that this was early DCC/Sound from the mid to late 90's!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Suggestions.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,16616.0.html
http://www.soundtraxx.com/documents/appnotes/bachmann280.pdf
http://www.garbo.org/MRR/2-8-0con.html
If you go with a Tsunami, SoundTraxx allows cutting back the shrink some.
Look in the below link.
http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/soundtraxx/tsunami.htm
I have used the Tsunami and LokSound. I like the Tsunami a little better becuase of the reverb options.
At first I was worried there was some major issue with this loco. Then I read the item - ok, so the motor leads are hooked up backwards on the circuit board. No big deal there. And ANOTHER item to add to my "why I almost always rip out factory boards when installing decoders" philosophy. I wouoldn;t worry so much about it, it's an easy fix.
What I WOULD stay away from are the early non-Spectrum runs of this loco. It has a very poor pancake motor that tends to not alst very long, plus a smoke unit in the stack (but the sires can be cut off to kill that). No option for a plug in decoder, it's strictly a hard-wired proposition for that one. ALso, the original non-Spectrum one is a Reading prototype and not accurate for UP.
peahrens The following link however still has me concerned. http://home.roadrunner.com/~mrwithdcc/con280.html
The following link however still has me concerned.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~mrwithdcc/con280.html
Thanks. I'm interested in the Loksounds. Would version 4 be good? Can you advise what speaker will fit, or can they advise on specific locos?
The following link however still has me concerned. It notes a problem with the first release of the spectrum, and I don't know if the #11411 version is a later release with corrected circuit board wiring that would allow simply plugging in a dcc/sound decoder.
The Spectrum version has an 8-pin decoder socket in the tender, so sound installation is a lot easier than with the original non-Spectrum version; however, the newer non-Spectrum version is the exact same mechanism as the original Spectrum one, so if you're interested in the NEW Bachmann 2-8-0, it is exactly the same as the original Spectrum.
Now that you're thoroughly confused, if I were installing sound today I'd use a LokSound Select decoder. In years past, when the Spectrum 2-8-0 was first introduced, the only decoder available was the older SoundTraxx pre-Tsunami decoder. Some day, I may get around to upgrading to a LokSound because the old SoundTraxx did not have very good sound or motor control.
I'm interested in adding a UP consolidation to my HO layout. I see I can find a Spectrum DCC ready with 8-pin plug. Also can find a DCC (no sound non-Spectruum). And of course I could await (how long??) the possible future release of a sound version, Spectrum or not.
If I acquired the Spectrum DC version, what decoder / speaker selection is suggested? And I saw some threads that there were some miswired versions (re: circuit board pins) and would want to avoid that. The model available is #11411.
If I bought the non-spectrum DCC version, what would I have to do to add sound? Replace their decoder with a sound one or add a parallel one fo the sound? Is this plug in or is wiring involved?
My skill level on DCC is I've added a 8-pin non-sound decoder to a DCC ready RS-2, but I have not yet taken on sound addition or wired in decoders.
What would be your guess on a sound version release with a couple years??
Any input is most appreciated.