lutherman thanks for this thread - I'm currently attempting the same thing on a BLI cab forward equipped with QSI quantum sound. I'm not a rivet counter by any means, but the generic sounds that are the same across the board are so NOT the cab forward and its distinctive cross-compound hiss. That and I'm keeping Soundtraxx as my standard so control across the loco roster is more streamlined.
thanks for this thread - I'm currently attempting the same thing on a BLI cab forward equipped with QSI quantum sound. I'm not a rivet counter by any means, but the generic sounds that are the same across the board are so NOT the cab forward and its distinctive cross-compound hiss. That and I'm keeping Soundtraxx as my standard so control across the loco roster is more streamlined.
After closer inspection, I have a 6 wire connection to the locomotive from the tender, with track power pickup through the tender wheels. I suspect one of the wires may be for the installed smoke generator, which I don't use.
Soo 61245 The original Blueline decoder is the one that came with sound but no DCC motor control. The buyer had to purchase a motor control decoder. The wiring harness plugged into various jacks on the sound board so there isn't a clear way to trace where each wire goes.
The original Blueline decoder is the one that came with sound but no DCC motor control. The buyer had to purchase a motor control decoder. The wiring harness plugged into various jacks on the sound board so there isn't a clear way to trace where each wire goes.
I had a similar problem when I wanted to replace the blue line sound module on my T1 with a QSI one.
Here's how I figured it out
I put a multimeter into short circuit detection mode (Kind of looks like "->|-" symbol on the dial. This puts a really small current through the two wires looking for a solid wire connection.
1. Put your multimeter to the left wheel, and step through the connection points on the harness till the # of the display drops near 0. (Or until it beeps) This is the left wheel connection
2. Move to the right wheel and step through the connection points on the harness till the # of display goes toward 0 again (or until it beeps) this is the right wheel connection.
3. a) Now move the multimeter to measure resistence (Ohms). This will help you find the two motor terminals. Move between the remaining pins and try all combinations. It should read somewhere between 120Ohms (1th amp motor) and 24Ohms (1/2 amp motor) or 12Ohms for a 1 amp motor (open frame typically) This is a rough rule of thumb. These will be your two terminals for the motor. If the motor is stalled, the numbers will be lower.
b) Now put your multimeter into volt measurement mode and turn on your train. Put something heavy on the track in front of it so it can't move (wheels slip) set your throttle forward so the wheels begin to turn. You should see the "voltage" go up as you raise your throttle. If the voltage reading is positive, then your red probe is touching the positive motor lead. If it's negative, the block probe is touching the positive motor lead.
3) The remaining 3 wires are cam, light + and light - (ground) With similar detective work you can figure out what they belong to.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Hi Rich
I had a total of three Blueline engines. The first two were an F-7 A-B set that FDT was closing out for something like $125 each and they threw in a motor decoder free. I went through the extreme frustrations to try to program both decoders and FINALLY got the A unit to run OK (the sound was pretty good, too. Notching of the prime mover was great!)
The B unit took on a life of its own making all kinds of crazy sounds! Engine would rev up then shut down, then come back in run 8 and stay there... drove me nutz!
I happily ripped out both boards and squished them in a sixty ton hydraulic press so that they would never fall into another sad unsuspecting victim's hands... good riddance. Today those two F-7s are pleased as punch to have ESU Loksound Selects in their bellies and I'm even happier!
So I wanted to try out the new TCS WOWsound decoder and I was looking for a host locomotive when I found someone offering a Blueline USRA Mike with, guess what? A bad sound decoder! It was perfect for what I was looking for. Cheap, already had speaker openings (I used better HB speakers) and the BLI HARNESS in question. (multi wire harnesses aren't cheap and some are bulky, wrong # of wires and sometimes rainbow colored!)
It was an EASY conversion and I LOVE this guy! Sound is WOW Wonderful! MOTOR control is SUPERB and the BLI Mike will walk away with 30 cars and the BEMF stack sound is perfect. Drifting downhill the stack is nearly silent and all you hear is the turbo and air pump and some rod clank!
[edit] I forgot to gush about how great the keep-alive functions on this decoder, too! WOW
So I think what SOO 61245 is doing is probably a good idea but I am curious about your #1 question... DID the engine run (even on DC with the jumper in place)?
It'll be good to hear how this turns out... my gut feeling is the blue+ to the reed switch causing the short.
Ed
Soo 61245 The original Blueline decoder is the one that came with sound but no DCC motor control. The buyer had to purchase a motor control decoder. The wiring harness plugged into various jacks on the sound board so there isn't a clear way to trace where each wire goes. I'm going to try BLI again as someone suggested and also a LHS that does decoder installs....from whom I bought the Soundtraxx decoder. I'll post a report when I get this figured out. Thanks to all who responded. john
I'm going to try BLI again as someone suggested and also a LHS that does decoder installs....from whom I bought the Soundtraxx decoder.
I'll post a report when I get this figured out. Thanks to all who responded.
john
I am trying to make sense of this entire situation.
So, the BLI steamer is a Blueline. It came with a factory equipped sound decoder. The original purchaser added an after-market motive decoder. The OP bought the loco used from the original buyer and now wants to replace the dual decoder setup with a Soundtraxx Tsunami. Is this all correct?
First question. Did the loco run when you initially purchased it?
Second question. Did you tag and mark the wires as you removed them from the original decoders?
Third question. Are you sure that you are placing the correct wires onto the Tsunami onto the correct tabs?
It sure sounds like the decoder is miswired. If the two rail pickup wires and the two motor wires are correctly identified and wired correctly to the Tsunami decoder, the loco should run. Those other three wires, if left disconnected, should have no effect on running the loco and no shorts should occur.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hello Again, John
I pried open my former BlueLine Mikado to have a look at the wire assignments. It doesn't exactly match what BLI told you over the phone. You can see the plugs marked on the PCM board for the rail pickups and motor outputs, one plug from the harness (pickups on the engine) and one each for the front and rear tender truck. Those should be easy to trace. I eliminated this board but I'm showing where the track pickups and motor outputs should be.
I don't know what BLI told you about a GROUND but look at my diagram and the blue wire is the function + and white function - you would need a 1k resistor on one of these leads. I'm not using any of the seven pins for a "ground"
MAYBE if you have the blue+ lead tied to the reed switch CHUFF sensor? Then when the magnet in the flywheel closes the switch as the motor turns you have your short and the decoder shuts down???
Precision Scale BlueLine PC board (above) which I eliminated.
And here is what I have LOOKING INTO the tender plug... yours SHOULD be the same, but might not?
(note: I show + and - rail but you can substitute north & south rail or rail A and rail B the old PC board makes it T+ and T- respectively) you get the idea.
Hope this helps you out.
Why not trace the wires with a VOM to be sure where they come from/go to? I had to do this with a Bachmann loco that didn't use NMRA wire colors. Just a thought.
-*Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
What's curious is the dead short when he first applies power to move the loco. Something is wired wrong or so it seems. if the two motor wires and the two rail wires are correctly connected, the loco should run.
Two of the three remaining wires are the +/- function outputs. If those wires are not connected, there would simply be no lighting. No problem there.
That 7th wire, the chuff according to BLI , is a baffler. But if it is not connected, that should not have any bearing on the shorting issue.
I was hoping that when looking at the soundtraxx decoder outputs, he could compare them to how and what were the use of the seven pins on the plug, should have L R motor headlights. ground and so forth. One of the wires has to be connected to the wrong output. Hopefully the decoder isn't already bad.
Frank
zstripe What is the # of the soundtraxx decoder you are putting in there? That will help in getting you a PDF for install and trouble shooting.
What is the # of the soundtraxx decoder you are putting in there? That will help in getting you a PDF for install and trouble shooting.
Not if he cannot identify the 7 BLI wires. I have a number of BLI steamers but I have never attempted to change decoders. If BLI cannot help you identify each of the wires, we need someone who has done it to identify each of those 7 wires for you. You might consider calling BLI back and report your progress with the first four wires. That may give them enough of a clue to help you complete the process and identify the source of that short.
John,
http://www.soundtraxx.com/products.php
Hi, John
I installed a TCS WOWsound decoder in a BLI Light Mikado that was a Blue-Line engine with a bad sound board. I "rang-out" the 7 pin harness but I can NOT put my finger on where I put my notes from this install.
I believe you have the wire assignments right but you should not have to connect anything to the blue +output of the decoder for the engine to run. I'm trying to remember which wire assignment was for the headlight but what I did was use a 9v. battery and a 1k resistor to get the headlight to light. Once I knew which lead was the LED + for the headlight I just put the blue wire on it and the white wire on the other (ground) so on your numbering you should have the blue wire to #5 and the white wire to #3. Try running it with the blue & white wires disconnected.
Can you run the engine with only 1&2 and 6&7 connected? I can't imagine any reason for a short when you increase the throttle. Can you unplug the decoder and apply DC to the motor alone? (a 9V battery is good for this) It seems to me that the problem you're having is not related to the sound but a short somewhere between the decoder and the motor. Did you eliminate the PC board in the tender? You should be able to put the 9v battery on the wires 2 & 6 and make the motor run.
Get out your meter and start looking for grounds (shorts)
Hope this helps... Ed
I''m in the process of replacing the original sound and motor decoder in my BLI Pennsy J1 with a Soundtraxx steam decoder.
I called BLI to verify the orientation of the original wiring harness between engine and tender since I'll reuse it. The guy at BLI didn't seem to have any reference material to look at but from memory said that facing the engine from the rear, the 7 conductor harness should begin from left to right or 1 thru 7 this way:
1. Left rail, 2. Motor bottom, 3. Ground, 4. Chuff, 5. Headlight, 6. Motor top, 7. Right rail.
So far, I've connected the left and right rail wires, and the motor top and bottom wires. I have also connected the two speaker wires from the decoder to the speakers. I have not connected the wires from the left and rt side of the tender trucks. At that point I decided to put it on the track and see what I had. When track power is applied, the sound comes to life, I can ring the bell and blow the whistle...but, as soon as I open the throttle to speed step on, something shorts out and pops the command station breaker.
Before I go further I'd like to know if harness conductor #3 (ground) should be attached to the "common" or blue wire from the decoder or ?? And I thought maybe conductors 3, 4, and 5 were misidentified by BLI
Hope someone can help clear this up. I've hardwired many non-sound engines but this is my first attempt at sound.